Very sharp hand tools

[Dan of SC]

I've read here and other sites about getting chisels and plane blades "scary" sharp or sharp enough to shave with. Can this type of edge be obtained on inexpensive tools like you get at Lowe's or Home Depot, or do they need to be more expensive? Are the expensive ones a better grade of steel, take a better edge or just stay sharper longer? Thanks, Danny Gray

[Marty Jacobson]

The best way to get scary sharp chisels is not cheap, but definitely not cost prohibitive for most people.
Get a few sheets of nice wet/dry sandpaper, in grits of 400, 800, 1200, 2000, and one higher such as 4000 or 5000 or whatever they have available. This should be $1 a sheet or so. Use the sandpaper on a nice flat surface such as a table saw top, piece of glass, or a granite sample tile from Home Depot. Total cost for initial sharpening should be under $20. Sand both surfaces of the chisel every time, make sure you sand the whole surface of the bevel and the last inch or so of the back of the chisel. This will get you to very sharp with a minimal amount of time. Stop when both surfaces are shiny from 4000+ grit and do not have any remaining scratches from the previous grade of sandpaper.
Also get a stick of green stropping compound such as the stuff Veritas sells, a piece of leather from Tandy or an old belt, and a piece of wood. Glue a strip of leather to a piece of wood to use as a strop. Then put your stropping compound on the leather and rub the now-polished chisel backwards with very light pressure a dozen times or so on each surface. This is to polish the final surface and remove any remnants of a wire edge burr that might be there. Frequent stropping will keep the blade sharp unless you actually nick it and have to go back to 1200 grit sandpaper to refresh the edge.

[Jim Hilburn]

I was amazed to realize there are still Tandy leather stores.

[NRMiller1958]

And get a honing guide. Makes a huge difference...

[MikeEdgerton]

I was amazed to realize there are still Tandy leather stores.

I know they have a web presence, I didn't realize they still had stores. I remember when the first Radio Shack store I ever saw opened in the basement of the Tandy Leather store in my hometown.

[Jim Hilburn]

shows 3 of them in Denver.

[Kennyz55]

Could you use micro mesh for sharpening as well

[Marty Jacobson]

shows 3 of them in Denver.

Tandy is OK for craft stuff but serious leatherworkers don't go to Tandy these days. They are great to help new leatherworkers get going, but most of their tools and materials are only OK. Then again there is probably not a sustainable business model in selling things like $40 spools of thread and $200 pricking irons from a brick and mortar store.

[Marty Jacobson]

Could you use micro mesh for sharpening as well

You could use it as a strop, applying very light pressure. The problem with micro-mesh is its latex cushioning. While it's great for sanding finishes, the cushioning action would result in an ever so slightly rounded edge, and we want a dead flat or even slightly hollow edge for most things.

[pops1]

I use water stones, but it is not the stones, but the technique that gets a flat sharp surface. Using the larger muscles like the legs for moving the chisel along the stone instead of the arms and hands is a definable must. Move with your legs and hold arms and hands still to keep your edge from rounding.

[Inklings]

This was very helpful to me:

[Folkmusician.com]

Getting cheap chisels super sharp is somewhere be between extremely difficult and impossible.
Intermediate grade chisels can actually be sharpened very well, but will not hold an edge as long.

I have a piece of granite, a nice sharpening guide and a waterstone and have tried sandpaper and glass.

What I find is that I can get 90% there by simply swiping it around a diamond stone a few times and rubbing it across a piece of leather.


Oh, and we have a Tandy here too.

[Jeff Mando]

Memphis has/had? a Tandy for years and the parking lot was always packed, but nobody was ever inside. I always assumed it was a front for something else, but who knows? My buddy took an old 40's Gibson guitar case in for a handle repair and the man did an expert job -- while we waited and watched!

I mean, in 1966 we made lace-up leather wallets in Cub Scouts.......but do kids still do stuff like that?

[Charles E.]

To the OP's question about the quality of steel in edged tools, yes the steel makes a difference. The thing you want most is that the blade is flat in the first place so that you can sharpen it. If it is bowed it is almost useless. One can spend a lot of money on higher end tools that have proven track records but one budget brand that scores well in Fine Woodworking tests is Narex.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...07&cat=1,41504

As far as the upper end goes, you might have a choice between O-1 steel and A-2 steel. In my experience the A-2 holds a sharper edge for a longer period then O-1 and is worth the additional cost.

[CarlM]

Yes it does make a difference in the quality of steel used in the tool and the hardening process. I have gotten good results with Stanley Professional Grade chisels for an option that is not break the bank expensive. These used to be available at a lot of hardware stores though I have not bought any for quite a while.

The best edge holding I ever found was with some knives that were old packing plant knives that were worn out. The steel was plain high carbon but hardened to a full Rockwell 62.5. Unfortunately I cannot get them any more as the packing plant is long closed. O1 should hold an edge as well as A2 provided it reaches the full hardness. D2 is used a lot in hunting knives but cannot be gotten much past Rockwell 60 due to the chromium content. It is tougher and more corrosion resistant which is good in the knives.

Usually the ordinary consumer products are not hard enough to hold a good edge though you might get lucky and find an exception.

[Dale Ludewig]

Hock's book The Perfect Edge is really enlightening about steel quality and edges. I also have The Razor's Edge or something like that as a book and some of the stuff that person recommends. All good stuff, especially Hock's.

And Marty's right on. You don't want flex in the material you're sharpening with. Once you've got a chisel edge and surface that is like a mirror, it's amazing what it can do.

[alfie]

With poor steel, there is a physical limit on how sharp it can get (Not very, there's a clue). Looking at a broken piece of steel through a microscope you can see it is composed of 'grains' of different shapes and sizes, it is a crystalline structure. Read up on the nature of this and how it changes under heat treatment and such, it's fascinating. To generalise, the makeup and heat treatment of cheaper steels, containing things like lots of chromium to keep them looking shiny, means that the grain structure is quite large. Imagine steel as bits of sand glued together - the finer the sand the sharper it can be. That said, the cheapest good chisels are old ones. Look for anything stamped 'cast steel', and waxy yellow boxwood handles if you're lucky.

[belbein]

The thing is, you can get your cheap tools sharp. But you can't KEEP them sharp. It's one of those old time vs money things. If you don't spend money on the tool, you're going to spend time re-sharpening them. Course some of us have more time than money, so it's a personal calculation, right? By the way, just in case it matters ... another good flat surface to sharpen on--in case you don't have a big sheet of glass--is your tablesaw table.

I spent a lot of time in kitchens with sharp knives. I don't understand "scary sharp." It's the dull tools that cut your fingers off. Well, and bandsaws.

[mirwa]

The thing is, you can get your cheap tools sharp. But you can't KEEP them sharp. It's one of those old time vs money things. If you don't spend money on the tool, you're going to spend time re-sharpening them.

That is exactly my findings as well.

Most steels for tooling are capable of being made razor sharp, they just do not have the hardness to retain that after being used.

Steve

[Clinchriver]

That is exactly my findings as well.

Most steels for tooling are capable of being made razor sharp, they just do not have the hardness to retain that after being used.

Steve

Ditto, I also have had a chisel or two that would chip. Blue Spruce, Veritas PVM-11, never look back

[Marty Jacobson]

Ditto, I also have had a chisel or two that would chip. Blue Spruce, Veritas PVM-11, never look back

Narex are excellent and are under $10 apiece. Good chisels don't have to be expensive. Or old, though if you find a nice old set, good on ya, because there's at least as much old junk out there as there is new junk.

[pops1]

I got some shorty chisels years ago, don't remember where, but I like the shorter set for more accuracy. The longer the chisel less movement with the back hand has more of an effect on the tip. With these shorter, blade and handle, chisels they hold an edge, were not expensive and I feel are more accurate to use.

[Ivan Kelsall]

When i was looking for high quality Chef's knives,i also had a look for high quality sharpening stones :- http://www.japaneseknifecompany.com/whetstone One of those will do the job - but,you need a good steel to start with.

When we moved into our current home,i found a carving knife made from Japanese steel which is incredibly 'tough' & hard in an old set of drawers. I used a small grinder to put an edge back on it,used a whet stone with water to finally finish the edge,& you can literally shave the hairs off your arm with it,
Ivan

[Polecat]

Very cheap tool are usually rubbish, and very expensive, you pay more for the name/status symbol than the quality. Somewhere in between makes sense if you are not going to be using the tool just the once. Although Marty Jacobsens suggestion with wet and dry works very well, if you are going to be maintaining tools or knives regularly, I think you are best served with a belgian coticule. It's a one stop stone that can be used for anything from setting a bevel to fine-polishing the edge, depending on how much slurry you rub up and how much pressure you exert. I do not do any woodworking any more (arthritic hands won't do both that and playing the mandolin), but I use the coticule both for kitchen knives and the antique straight razors I shave with. The honing guide is a very good suggestion, too.

[Bill Snyder]

I have read the initial post in this thread several times now and I have yet to read where he asks HOW TO SHARPEN.