Long distance sales

[Earl]

I would appreciate advice from anyone who has experience with long distance sales of instruments, e.g. internet sales, etc. I have only sold one OM & that was in person. Now someone on the far side of the country (whom I have never met) has expressed an interest. Before we get into any possible negotiations I thought it would be advisable to learn more about how this is typically done. Are there any "standard" protocols regarding transfer of funds? I am grateful for any advice that might be offered.

-Earl Tyler

[Tavy]

Yes: just make sure that you're paid before shipping the instrument

Paypal is obviously useful for that - although you may need to negotiate who takes the hit for Paypal's fees - personally I just regard them part of the cost of doing business and take the hit myself, but other folks may have other ideas.

Other than that, by far the biggest reason things may go wrong is in postage: so make sure you pack well and use tracked and signed for delivery. If you work on the assumption that someone in the sorting office will use your parcel for an impromptu game of football then you'll should be fine.

By and large though, it's not nearly as scary as it feels first time round.... not that you ever stop worrying completely until the tracker says the parcel is safely delivered!

[Jill McAuley]

I try to avoid shipping close to the weekend or over holiday weekends as it just lengthens the time between shipment and delivery, which may increase the risk of damage or loss I would reckon.

[Tim Griffin]

I agree w Jill. Plan your ship and arrival days so they don't keep your instrument longer than needed. I have used USPS with very good results. With most shippers you can save on shipping costs by creating your shipment online. A UPS store will cost quite a bit more if they pack and process.

[Willie Poole]

IF the buyer sends you cashiers check take it to one of the banks that the check is drawn from and have them check the validity of the check....I had a cashiers check from a fellow and it was a fake check... if the buyer is a member of the Mandolin Cafe then chances are you will be safe...I am not familiar with how Pay Pal works myself, never used them...

Willie

[Earl]

I am not familiar with how Pay Pal works myself, never used them...

Willie

I have gotten by just fine without PayPal too, until now. I just now bit the bullet & signed up for an account. It seems that they have a function, PayPal.Me, that assigns you a link which you can include in an e-mail. The recipient/payee can just click on the link & send payment. Of course they must have a PayPal account too. But then I guess everybody does except Willie & me; & I've got one now! Truth is though, I'd rather be with you, Willie.

The sad thing is that I've done all this for a POTENTIAL sale. We haven't even talked about price yet. This could well be all for naught. But I'll be prepared if there's a next time......if I can remember my password that long!

[Tavy]

I have gotten by just fine without PayPal too, until now. I just now bit the bullet & signed up for an account. It seems that they have a function, PayPal.Me, that assigns you a link which you can include in an e-mail. The recipient/payee can just click on the link & send payment. Of course they must have a PayPal account too.

I haven't seen/tried that, but if you issue a Paypal invoice then they can pay by whatever credit/debit card they wish, not just Paypal.

I used to time posting things to avoid weekend holdups, but mostly don't bother so much. Depending on the parcel company, the package may well be in transit over a weekend even if there are no deliveries for the "final mile". For example I recently posted a mandolin to Japan: posted on Thursday afternoon, arrived on Tues morning. I reckon that's pretty good, and the package must have been in transit over the weekend for that kind of speed I guess. Only thing I try to avoid are winter public holidays: you don't really want an instrument stuck in a van for 4 days in the freezing cold. Or in a hot summer either for that matter... fortunately there's not much chance of that around here

[Earl]

[QUOTE=Tavy;1503157]I haven't seen/tried that, but if you issue a Paypal invoice then they can pay by whatever credit/debit card they wish, not just Paypal.

I completely missed that, Tavy. I went back to the PayPal site & found the invoice function; I guess that's most straightforward way to do business. Thanks again!

[fatt-dad]

actually talking on the phone is the right first step. If there's no weird vibe and the price is agreed, I go with paypal or usps check and ship after money is received. There's trust required and fees to work out. Otherwise, it's just a 10 to 15 day process of some sort.

f-d

[Earl]

Of course you're right f-d; talking is indeed the next step. I was just trying to get the logistics of the last step nailed down so that the talking would be easier. Thanks for the reminder about talking & trust.

[wsugai]

On my recent mando purchase, the dealer delayed shipping until my cashier's check cleared. The whole purpose of my going through the trouble and expense of obtaining a cashier's check was so that the dealer would ship immediately, unlike with a personal check, where clearance is a reasonable necessity before shipping.

If sellers are going to delay shipping until cashier's checks clear, why not just use a personal check to begin with. Same outcome - delayed shipping until the check clears.

IF the buyer sends you cashiers check take it to one of the banks that the check is drawn from and have them check the validity of the check....I had a cashiers check from a fellow and it was a fake check... if the buyer is a member of the Mandolin Cafe then chances are you will be safe...I am not familiar with how Pay Pal works myself, never used them...

Willie

[Tavy]

On my recent mando purchase, the dealer delayed shipping until my cashier's check cleared. The whole purpose of my going through the trouble and expense of obtaining a cashier's check was so that the dealer would ship immediately, unlike with a personal check, where clearance is a reasonable necessity before shipping.

If sellers are going to delay shipping until cashier's checks clear, why not just use a personal check to begin with. Same outcome - delayed shipping until the check clears.

I know nothing about cashier's cheques (I don't think I've even seen one!), but my guess is that the issue from the sellers perspective is fraud. Of course even with Paypal's apparently "instant" service, you can still receive chargebacks up to 120 days after the payment has gone through.... so you basically have to just post it and hope...

[Willie Poole]

As I posted above there are some crooks out there that know how to print what looks like a valid cashiers check so if someone was to ship an instrument as soon as he/she got the check and then found that it was a fake the seller would be out one instrument...In this case it is "Seller beware"....In the case where I took one to the bank it was drawn of they told me that the fellow that sent it had duped 14 other people and they were still trying to catch/locate him, some are sent from Florida and some from Texas...I did talk to the fellow on the phone and he was in Florida at that time....Myself I would never send an instrument until I had the cash in my hands...I am not saying that everyone is a crook but you have to be careful, I did buy a mandolin from a fellow in NJ and I sent him a regular check and held my breath until he shipped the mandolin, he could have cashed it and ran...

Willie

[Steve Sorensen]

Paypal or agree to ship after check clears. FedEx.

Steve

[Folkmusician.com]

On my recent mando purchase, the dealer delayed shipping until my cashier's check cleared. The whole purpose of my going through the trouble and expense of obtaining a cashier's check was so that the dealer would ship immediately, unlike with a personal check, where clearance is a reasonable necessity before shipping.

Cashiers checks are safe, if you can cash it at the issuing bank and walk out with the cash. Depositing a cashiers check is just as risky as a personal check and counterfeits are commonly used for fraud. The same goes for Money Orders. To be safe, it needs to be cashed at the issuer.

[Earl]

Thanks to all for advice. The sale was completed, funds transferred via PayPal, instrument shipped by USPS Priority. Everything went fine & new owner seems happy. I took the package to the Post Office on Wed. afternoon (in East Tennessee) & it was delivered just north of San Francisco on Friday. That seems pretty good to me.

Thanks again - Earl Tyler

[michaelcj]

I have never sold, only purchased. The anxiety can go both ways, especially with a costly item.
I have purchased from businesses, Elderly, Gruhn's, Clark, etc., and from individuals.
I always start with a telephone conversation.
I don't use paypal [Have had to replace hacked credit cards 4 times in the last 6 years… all after a paypal purchase].
I offer a personal check or cashiers check if requested with the caveat that the seller wait to ship until the check has cleared to their satisfaction. [ I will use a credit card with known and trusted businesses]
I have purchased from sellers here on the Cafe usin the same process and both parties have been satisfied.

Still it all starts with personal contact and trusting your gut.

Mike

[Rick Lindstrom]

No one mentioned it, but US Postal Service money orders are safe as far as I can tell, and you can either cash them at the post office or deposit them directly at your bank. Maybe someone else has, but I've not heard of a fake USPS money order.

[Folkmusician.com]

No one mentioned it, but US Postal Service money orders are safe as far as I can tell, and you can either cash them at the post office or deposit them directly at your bank.

Postal money orders are one of the best. Every town has a post office to cash it at. Although I haven't heard of a counterfeit USPS money order, I am sure it could happen. Aside from fakes, the big problem with checks and money orders is that they can be cancelled and it can come back on you after the money becomes available in your account.

[Mandoplumb]

If I was to cash it at PO and deposited the cash in my account how could it come back on me?

[Jeff Mando]

Back 20 years ago, when eBay first started, there was no Paypal. Everything was done by US Postal money orders or Western Union. The customer sends me the money order, I go to the post office and I cash it. Then I ship the item. Easy. Please note, it only works with US Postal Service money orders -- not the kind from Walmart or the convenience store -- the post office will not cash those. Also, if you live in a tiny town, the post office might not have enough cash in the drawer to cash a big money order, but usually I just call first. Western Union gets a bad rap on this forum, but it was great for me, as a seller. The customer emails that they send it, I go to my local grocery store, which is a Western Union office, they give me the check, I sign it, and they cash it for me right there. I then can ship the item. Western Union works great for International sales, as well. Paypal, OTOH, was created mostly as an additional income stream for eBay, although "they say" they are now separate......Paypal did simplify International exchange rates, but truthfully vintage guitars were bought and sold for years internationally by bank wire transfer, which also took into account exchange rates, so really it was never a problem. Paypal is very convenient. The 'protection" Paypal provides is mostly in the favor of the customer, not the seller, as we have discussed here many times. The "beauty" of Paypal is the speed in which the transaction takes place and if you have a Paypal debit card issued to your account you can immediately pull money out from an ATM. Of course, there is a transaction fee for that, but seconds after the money is sent, it can be cash in your hand. Paypal only gets ugly when a fussy customer cancels a transaction and the money is pulled out of your linked bank account the instant they change their mind. At that point you are out the instrument and your money, until the customer sends the instrument back. For me, as the seller, I prefer to be the one in the "driver's seat" -- not the customer. Who ever heard of the buyer telling the store how the transaction was going to take place???? As a customer, I might just like that level of protection......

But, as a seller, you can quickly see the advantages of postal money orders and Western Union.

[Folkmusician.com]

If I was to cash it at PO and deposited the cash in my account how could it come back on me?

Perfectly safe to cash them at the source. Only cashing at your bank or depositing them presents a risk.

[belbein]

Cashiers checks are NOT safe. The bank does not guarantee them. What you want is a CERTIFIED check, or as other people said, postal money orders.

Cashing checks or cashier's checks at the source is fine ... but that's if you're in the same location as the buyer (which didn't seem to me to be the situation) and can go to the same bank. Increasingly banks are putting holds even on your deposits to your own account, or on cashing large checks even from their customers' accounts.

Cash is the best; anything that's close to cash (that cannot be charged back, put on hold or reclaimed) is great. Anything else is dangerous. You might go to your bank and explain the problem and ask what they recommend.