Anyone working through Ranieri method?

[Rob MacKillop]

I'm about three-quarters of the way through book one of L'Art de la Mandoline. Someone could make some money recording the teacher's parts, as the vast majority of exercises are duets.

The near constant tremolo takes some getting used to, but the technique certainly helps your overall technique to improve. I'm having a little trouble doing the short tremolo burst on quavers - eighth notes - in pieces 41 and 42, with each quaver separated from its neighbour. There doesn't seem to be enough time to do all of that. Otherwise, I think I'm managing to play the pieces reasonably well, with room for refinement over time.

Many of the pieces are by Mazas, and many of them sound like bits pinched from Mozart and others. Could be worse. I'm quite enjoying working through the book.

[DavidKOS]

No, I'm not working through Ranieri for the simple reason that I cannot find a free pdf of his books - and there are enough free Munier and Calace methods to keep me busy.

I'd love to get the Ranieri materials but not at the current prices - after all, Ranieri is not going to be collecting any royalties!

[Rob MacKillop]

Hmm. OK. Mine cost £11. I was happy to pay that, as it would probably cost me half that just to print out. The book is beautifully printed already. I don't mind paying the publisher that much, and the shop for placing it on sale. And I certainly don't restrict myself to what I can get online for free. With pdfs, someone had to do the scanning (often a LOT of pages) and uploading, and presumably from their bought copy. When I do download pdfs, many of them have a small charge, and I certainly don't mind paying that either.

Has anyone got anything more positive to say?

[DavidKOS]

Well that's not too bad a price, I need to look again!

[crisscross]

I also have the Ranieri method, because I got it cheap on e-bay.
What seems a little strange to me is, that he starts the practical part with tremoloed notes. I mean, you, Rob are an exiperienced pick-wielder on tenor banjo, acoustic and electric guitar, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem for you, to achieve a nice tremolo from the start.
But the method should also work for someone who hasn't held a pick in his hand before.
In this case, I'd find it more useful to gradually get used to a constant down-up movement by playing melodies in eight notes first, then sixteenth notes and then slöwly approach tremolo.
Ranieri has one line of 4 bars, where he explains the transition from eighth notes to 16th notes to 32th notes and that's it, then you should be able to execute a tremolo.
To me, that's typical for older method books, in which you are thrown a lifetime's quantitiy of music theory at your head on the first seven pages and then you should know...

Sorry that I havn't got anything positive to say, the musical examples as such might be fine, but when it comes to studying classical mandolin, I prefer the works by Alison Stephens at Astue Music http://www.astute-music.com/shop/ste...-8.html?page=3

[Rob MacKillop]

Interesting comments, crisscross. I know exactly what you are talking about, but I'm using it as a period method, belonging to the late 19th, early 20th-century, not for using with modern pieces. I can well imagine Alison's books cater for a more rounded modern way of playing.
I see nothing wrong with your idea of playing the early pieces in eighths, before increasing the number of strikes per beat. But there's no question that tremolo is the foundation of this period style. Calace is another with the same outlook: "...the life of the mandolin is the tremolo. It is a great error for a teacher to assign this a secondary priority. Instead, the first duty is to instruct the student in how gradually to overcome this obstacle, perhaps the most serious throughout the study of the mandolin."

So, it's probably not the best method for modern playing, though I doubt a study of it would harm anyone. I find the studies and pieces pleasant enough. As for my own tremolo, sometimes it flows, but very often it can sound lumpy...but I'm working on it!

[derbex]

I am going through Ranieri with my music teacher, we are up into the 60s now.I have supplemented it with Alison Stephens studies and just recently August Watters excellent book, Exploring Classical Mandolin, but Ranieri is the core of my studies. I am starting to think that all the tremolo is taking a physical toll though.

[Rob MacKillop]

Derbex, do you mean your right hand is tightening up?

[derbex]

No, it sometime feels more as if I have pulled something in the wrist, I have not played the last couple of days because of it. I also get a bit of a pain in the elbow from time to time.

It's not just the tremolo, I think this time it was a bit too much practice and playing various mandos that did it, combined with quite a lot of tremolo practice.

[Classicalcomp]

Yeah I found both Ranieri books for about $30, but they are really good books. I wish there were more us publishers of the modern mandolin music. Every three months I have to stock up on Mandolin works from my German publishers and shipping is not cheap.

[Jes Woodland]

I am going through Ranieri with my music teacher, we are up into the 60s now.I have supplemented it with Alison Stephens studies and just recently August Watters excellent book, Exploring Classical Mandolin, but Ranieri is the core of my studies.

I`m working my way thru that August Watters book at the moment...some good stuff in there!

[Jim Garber]

I believe that the current two books of the Ranieri method are a condensed version of the original books which covered a lot more ground.

[Rob MacKillop]

Interesting, Jim. There is very little textual help. Calace didn't do much talking either. I wish they had both said a lot more about interpretation. But maybe Ranieri did...

[crisscross]

Dug out my copy of volume one and had a look at it. There is one thing I don't understand though:
Until the introduction of the staccato playing, every note is supposed to be played tremolo.

For example 9, the legato tie is introduced requiring a constant tremolo through all the notes under the tie.
For example 13, the tenuto line above or under the note is introduced, requiring a tremolo for each individual note, but a separation of the notes.


But there continue to occur notes, that have no articulation signs at all, and I wonder how to execute them?

[Rob MacKillop]

I have come across numerous passages in mandolin notation where it is unclear what is being indicated, not just in this book. But let's take example 15:



Bars 3, 4 and 5 show clearly the tremolo sustained through all the notes in a bar, probably with a slight separation over the bar line indicated by the slur sign.

Bar 2 shows two shorter tremolo notes, with a slight gap between each note, indicated by the line above the first two notes.

But what is the difference in technique and articulation between bars 7 and 9? Both consist of a bar of two minims, one without a slur, one with.

It's not until the next example where Ranieri introduces notes which are to be played with no tremolo at all. So, the two minims without a slur in bar 7 (example 15) are still to be played with tremolo.

[derbex]

We have been taking bar 7 to be played tremolo, but with a gap between the minims as per example 13 above, bar 9 to continuous tremolo over the 2 notes..

[Rob MacKillop]

That's what I was doing, but Caterina Lichtenberg suggested playing a continuous tremolo in passages like bars 9 through 13, without breaking it up with every slur line. But I guess that's just her own interpretation.

[derbex]

Other places in the book he's not shy about slurring across bars, so I would, at least initially follow his breaks. That said we have been getting a bit more 'interpretive' as we go through, but I would still try it as written first.

[crisscross]

But what is the difference in technique and articulation between bars 7 and 9? Both consist of a bar of two minims, one without a slur, one with.

We have been taking bar 7 to be played tremolo, but with a gap between the minims as per example 13 above, bar 9 to continuous tremolo over the 2 notes..

So maybe the gap between two notes with a line above them is a tiny bit more real, whereas notes without any articulation marks are detached more by feeling., e.g. by accentuating the second note a little more than a second note under a legato tie?

[Rob MacKillop]

Subtle. You'd need a good technique to articulate that, but apparently that's what's needed. I have work to do!

[Martin Jonas]

So maybe the gap between two notes with a line above them is a tiny bit more real, whereas notes without any articulation marks are detached more by feeling., e.g. by accentuating the second note a little more than a second note under a legato tie?

Yes, I would agree with that:

Two tied minims = a single tremolo note sustained for four beats with no audible transition between notes
Two minims without tie = continuous tremolo, but with the onset of the second note audible (either by a tiny gap or by articulation)
Two minims with tenuto markings = two distinct notes, each tremoloed but with a distinct clear gap between them

Martin

[crisscross]

Yesterday; I searched Yotube for "Ranieri, mandolin" and among others found this video:

This, in conjunction with Rob's nice video of exercise 26 convinced me to also give Silvio a try.
Considering myself rather a beginner at the ART OF THE MANDOLIN, I began with exercise 15.
To play against a background, I recorded the second mandolin with a classical guitar.
Especially in the second part, it adds harmonic interest.
The hardest part for me are the tenuto tremoloed notes.
I'd be glad for ideas on how to practice them systematically.
Or should I go rather by feel?
Anyway, nice music to practice.
Thanks Rob for reminding me!
https://soundcloud.com/tele1310/ranieri-15

[Jim Garber]

Yesterday; I searched Yotube for "Ranieri, mandolin" and among others found this video:

Ralf is pedagogically in direct line to Ranieri himself and plays in that style. He uses the long Ranieri/Roman style plectrum.

[Rob MacKillop]

Not bad, cc. Your tremolo is very even throughout. I'd like to hear a little gap between the E of bar 4 and the E of bar 5, and maybe a little more difference in the marked dynamics.

Regarding the steadiness off the tremolo - I'm trying to decide if that's a good thing. I played a tremolo piece to Caterina Lichtenberg, who was saying how well I did to vary the tremolo, and play it very fast, with lots of notes per beat. But then, Alex Timmerman said of my Ranieri study that I should play a slower tremolo, and be able to count the number of strokes per beat, keeping it the same throughout. I think, maybe, Alex is trying to get me to have more control, especially with string crossing, in these early stages, and maybe be more expressive later on.

So, I'm not in a position to advise you on that aspect of tremolo. But I enjoyed your recording, and it was nice to hear the guitar playing the second part at the real pitch, not an octave lower.

[crisscross]

I believe that the current two books of the Ranieri method are a condensed version of the original books which covered a lot more ground.
Jim

Looking at what Ralf writes as an addition to his videos, you are certainly right. The video above is No.89 of the 1925 edition and this Beethoven Duett is even No.110.
My contemporary edition stops at No.81.
Too bad, nice pieces not printed!