pava satin

[jfrebel]

I might well be trading my gibson F5G for a pava satin plus some cash.

I'm trying to do research on the Pava mandolins particularly the satin model, and there appears to be almost no recordings of them online anywhere I've looked, even their own website.

anybody here who have played them, I'd like to hear your input, particularly how they compare to kentucky km150, km950 and gibsons and webers with volume, tone, etc.


even better if you happen to have one and can post a recording of it playing a slow song like wayfaring stranger with tremolo on the high then low strings, as well as maybe an irish tune like butterfly or swallowtail jig or some fiddle tune like old joe clark, and then strum some open chords to hear it wrong and chops to hear that, I'd love it. then do the same on a gibson or a kentucky km-950 so I can really hear the difference.

that'd help me more than anything. even if you can't do that but have comments to make feel free to share them. Thanks!

[Mark Wilson]

I've owned two pava satin models. '14 and '15. To my surprise they sounded different. The '15 sounded much like the Collins MT that I owned previously. Nice tone/cut but a bit bright for my taste. The '14 is very well balanced and sounds as nice (to me) as one could hope for in that price range.

But the '14 pava does not sound like the Gibson F5G. That's a different tone to me. My Kelley A5 has similar tone to the good Gibsons I've played. Some call it a vintage tone - I dunno how to describe it - I know it when I hear it.

I don't have a F5G to play along side my Pava satin and besides I'm not the one you want to hear when evaluating any mandolin. I could probably depress Gilchrist resale values if I recorded one of those.

I like the satin pava a lot for mandolins in the <2.5K price window.

[Josh Levine]

I just got a Pava Player that I could record for you and I could reference it with an old recording of a Flatiron which would fall somewhere around the Gibson Kentucky tonal spectrum. It will have to be over the weekend, though.

[Nate Lee]

Mark Lavengood of Lyndsay Lou & The Flatbellys plays a Pava satin model. Search them on YouTube and you might find some video.

My Pava mandolin is not a satin model, but you can hear what it sounds like here: http://thenatelee.com/performance.html, and here: http://thenatelee.com/instructional-videos.html

[darylcrisp]

I owned a Pava satin when I first started playing-excellent mandolin (Clement on this forum owns it). I have a soundclip if I can find it. Mine was balanced with a nice bass, rounded notes all along the neck. very easy to play and just an overall great little mandolin.

At the time, I didn't understand how to hold/position an A style. That was the only reason I sold it(daughter and wife had F style Webers and I liked the bottom point to balance the mando). That Pava is the only mandolin I wish I had not sold and still had.

Clement could probably help you out more, I think he has owned some Kentucky models, not sure about Gibson.

d

[LadysSolo]

I own a Pava player and a Weber Bitterroot (I think the main difference between the satin and player is finish and trim,) and the Pava is lovely to play (as is the Weber.) The Pava has a slightly "brighter" tone IMHO, and the Weber is a little deeper (to me.) But both are very nice, and I am happy with both, the addition of these has "cured" my MAS. They both have good "projection" for playing in church (my only venue outside my living room.)

[jfrebel]

thanks for the replies!

nate, I love your mandolins tone!

yes jwalter and others feel free to share recordings. that helps me and my guess is others too, curious about this mandolin and having trouble finding sound files and videos of it being played.

[jfrebel]

here's a question though. nates mandolin sounds so full and rich.

yet the only videos I found was this, (see first video below) and it sounds terrible to my ears. way to thin and bright.


compare that to nate though (see second video) and I love it. so dark, fat and rich and with good sustain. (hopefuly loud too)


if the pava satin sounds more like the second video, I'm sold.

[darylcrisp]

keep in mind the style of play from each are wildly different, and the environment which each was videographed-the one at TMS you can hear the open room vs Nate being in a smaller quiet room and very probably a different recording mic or apparatus.

both remind me of the Pava I had, it definitely would ring out like in Nates, but would rise up if needed when laid into.

I haven't had time to find the soundclip I have, but it will give you a good idea and guarantee impress you with the mandolin(maybe not my playing, but............)

d

**just found the clip-send me an email addy and i'll forward it to you

[jfrebel]

email sent in PM. thanks!

[jfrebel]

If you go to the MandoLessons channel on YouTube he plays an Ellis which from what I read is basically very similar in tone as a pava and is even made in the same shop, if that's true, I really like his and thus should like the pava too.

[Josh Levine]

Yes and no on the Pava/Ellis comparison. They are made in the same shop by the same folks, but tonally I find them quite different. I own a Pava and an Ellis and the Pava is much brighter in my opinion. It is also new and the Ellis is about 10 years old so that makes a difference. They both have excellent playabiility, fit, finish, volume. But tonally my Ellis is much darker, bassier, and fatter toned. The Ellis has a rich, complex brightness with great cut. Both excellent.

[Luna Pick]

Since there aren't many Pava F's out there yet for comparison, is it reasonable to assume the Pava F's and A's will generally sound similar, as in other makers and Ellis? Sorry if this is a hijack or discussed elsewhere, but just in case someone mojo's for an F but most of the sound clips now are Pava A's.

[keithb]

keep in mind the style of play from each are wildly different, and the environment which each was videographed-the one at TMS you can hear the open room vs Nate being in a smaller quiet room and very probably a different recording mic or apparatus.

Indeed - TOTALLY different styles of play in these two clips. Also, Nate has presumably spent many hours with his instrument, and has learned to pull exactly the sound he wants out of it, where the player in the first clip has probably only spent a few minutes with that mandolin. I'm not a strictly "tone is in the fingers" person, but the mandolin is a sensitive little beast.

[Nate Lee]

keep in mind the style of play from each are wildly different, and the environment which each was videographed-the one at TMS you can hear the open room vs Nate being in a smaller quiet room and very probably a different recording mic or apparatus.

My videos were made on my iPhone, using a Zoom mic in a small carpeted room. Style of play definitely comes into play as well. Also, a brand new one won't sound as open as mine that I've been playing for hours a day for almost two years.

[Nate Lee]

Yes and no on the Pava/Ellis comparison. They are made in the same shop by the same folks, but tonally I find them quite different. I own a Pava and an Ellis and the Pava is much brighter in my opinion. It is also new and the Ellis is about 10 years old so that makes a difference. They both have excellent playabiility, fit, finish, volume. But tonally my Ellis is much darker, bassier, and fatter toned. The Ellis has a rich, complex brightness with great cut. Both excellent.

Pava mandolins definitely have their own sound. Sort of a roundness to the tone, almost like there's a touch of oval hole sound, and a touch of Adam Steffey sound. It's a bright sound, but very smooth, and not harsh. Both Ellis and Pava are excellent, but the Pava sound matches my play style the most.

Someone mentioned the new Pava F models. My student just bought one at Carter Vintage Guitars. I went to Carter twice to play it, and it sounds incredible. It has the same Pava sound I described above, but with a little more bark to it. The fit and finish is exactly what I expected from that shop. Flawless.

[Nate Lee]

I'm not a strictly "tone is in the fingers" person, but the mandolin is a sensitive little beast.

IMO tone is in the fingers and the mandolin. If one of the other is inadequate, the sound won't be satisfactory. I have many times heard a great player make a mediocre mandolin sound great, and I've heard many people make great mandolins sound like cheap plywood mandolins. When the player is capable of making great tone, and is paired with a great mandolin that matches that player's style, magic happens.

[jclover]

I have had 2 Pava mandolins (one satin, one of the early builds in gloss) and they did not sound the same - similar, but not the same. I liked them both a great deal. The satin was brighter, the other was darker. Neither sounded as good as an Ellis A to my ear, but again, similar. YMMV.

[Josh Levine]

Not exactly what you were asking for but here is a new Pava Player and a 2000 or 2001 Flatiron. Flatirons were built in the Gibson factory to the F5G/A5G specs during that era, so they are pretty similar. I think the Pava has more cut. The Gibson has a bassier rounder tone and a better chop. The Pava's playability is way better in my opinion. It is one of the easiest playing mandolins I have owned. I also think the Pava is louder or atleast cuts and projects better.
https://soundcloud.com/user-791797739/sets/soundclips

[f5joe]

The old advice is always the best advice ....... when possible. Each mandolin and model and/or brand have their own tone and playability. You, the buyer/player, have to decide what you like best.

[jfrebel]

Not exactly what you were asking for but here is a new Pava Player and a 2000 or 2001 Flatiron. Flatirons were built in the Gibson factory to the F5G/A5G specs during that era, so they are pretty similar. I think the Pava has more cut. The Gibson has a bassier rounder tone and a better chop. The Pava's playability is way better in my opinion. It is one of the easiest playing mandolins I have owned. I also think the Pava is louder or atleast cuts and projects better.
https://soundcloud.com/user-791797739/sets/soundclips

in this comparison, I liked the gibson more. it seemed to have a fatter tone. f5Joe is correct that the best option is to try some and see what works. one gibson may sound better than one pava and then the next two will be the other way around. sadly for me I don't have that option. honestly if I didn't I wouldn't ask anybody, I'd just go over and try several dozen and pick the one that sounded the best that I could afford. since that's not an option, all I can do is use websites like this one to try and get some ideas of what some might sound like. then hope mine will too.

the person in this thread who emailed me had a nice fat sweet sounding satin pava and mentioned the satin pava has a richer tone to his ears than the gloss ones do. based on this clip and his it seems he could be right assuming these clips are representative of the general sound.


by the way I could also trade for a collings MT so may as well toss that in the mix and see what comments and possible clips I get.

[Josh Levine]

If you are looking for fatter tone I think you would be better served with a Gibson style mandolin than a Pava or Collings.

[jfrebel]

we'll see. I still have a km-950 coming for me to try out. it's a gibson type tone. I liked my km-150's tone except for the G string which I hate and it's chop is weak. not that I'm good at chops but when I am, I'd like my mandolin to be able to do it nicely.

the F5G gibson had a much better chop and way better on the lower stuff like the G string but its E was too piercing for me, and it didn't seem to have a singing melodious tone to me. I want fat and dark but also sustain, loudness and and clarity.


oddly enough I prefered the gibson for lower strings and the km-150 for high strings. and thats not a typo; yes, I mean the lowly 150 not a km-1050. I tried one of those and it didn't do it for me it. sent it back. my hope is the 950 being an A shape like my km-150 might have the best of the gibson with the best of the km-150 and be right in the sweet spot.


we'll see when it arrives tuesday.


I still lean toward a pava based on nate's video and the email daryl sent. if the pava sounds like those I'll be happy trading my gibson for it and some money. and I may keep the kentucky 950 too. who knows.


I still hope to see others contribute here in this thread, both for my sake, (maybe I should look harder at the collings?) and others looking into Pava mandolins and having trouble finding clips of them being played.

[darylcrisp]

I have ended up really liking the Collings MT line. I prefer, for myself, the satin finish models. I just like the look, feel, tone.

Keep in mind the neck profile of the Pava and Collings MT are very different. For myself, I prefer the Collings neck profile probably over anything I've tried-it just works very well for me. That may not be the same for you, so make sure you have an inspection/right to return with your trade or buying.

There is a difference between the Collings and Pava tone. I found the Pava to have a sweeter rounder note quality, but I still like the dry responsive sound of a good Collings. Its all so personal.

Either way, you're looking at two excellent makers.

I've looked often at many a Pava since I sold mine. It wouldn't be a far fetch to reprofile the neck shape on one if I pick another one up one day.

ahem...............have you considered a Northfield F5S..............you might should investigate that maker also. very nice, very responsive, very well setup, sweet tone and the good ones can project quite well.

good luck, keep us posted
d

[Nate Lee]

Someone asked about the sound of the Pava F model. I had the opportunity to play another one at Carter Vintage Guitars this week and I made a video. It is recorded on my iPhone with a Zoom mic. Sorry about the slight distortion. I had the gain set too high on my mic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYJHmUg7gQU