Your Experiences with Online Learning!

[BradKlein]

I'm working on a story (in part) about the experience of teaching and studying music online. Obviously, it's changed the economics of, and opportunities for music instruction in a huge way in recent years.

I wonder if folks have any particular hints for getting the most out of online lessons (mandolin or whatever)... or for GIVING lessons online.

Any pitfalls to avoid? Contrast with your experiences with in person learning?

Thanks!

[Mark Wilson]

I've gained the most in person from having a trained eye observe me play and teach me how to improve/correct my technique.
Tried the site where you post videos for response but having it stored for public viewing is not my cup of tea atm.

I've gained the most online from having the lesson available so I can watch - re-watch til I get it. And lessons that teach me more than a new tune

I get the least from lessons that JUST teach a new tune. But they have a purpose and I appreciate a new tune now and then
Not posting new material. I did a 90 day trial on popular site w/o any new lessons posted in +60 days

[Gary Leonard]

I started with a combination of in person lessons, and online training. I love the video response format of online learning, and the ability to access online lessons anytime I want. I dropped my in person lessons after a year, an have kept the online training (Artistworks). I have also taken a set of lessons from Matt Flinner, which combines the best of both worlds, a weekly live, online class and practice session, and materials available online.

I'd like to get back into n person lessons, as it forces you to play with another person, something I need to do more of.

Building a strong foundation from which to grow from is important, and having a person there to guide that is key. You can get that from the Artistworks video exchanges, but at a much slower pace.

Matt's online lessons are great, but it is more like a workshop format. You get the group lesson, and a lot of material to parse through.

I prefer the Artistworks approach, as it is easier to access materials, and the ability to see other people's video submissions is priceless. After all, the mistakes and problems you are facing in making this instrument sing are probably not unique. Also, it is more of a community.

Pitfalls: Pick what you want to work on, and focus on that. At a week long mandolin camp, you'd go nuts trying to absorb and learn all the materials presented. Where I am at with the mandolin, I'd go nuts trying to learn all of the material Matt presented in his course. Know your limits, and don't get frustrated, any good online course will have a lot of material to work on, for a variety of abilities.

Follow the curriculum, and don't jump too far ahead.

Video yourself. It is amazing how much you can learn from watching yourself play. you don't have to present the video to the world on youtube, or the mandolin café, or the Artistworks website. The more you do this, the easier it gets, and soon you will want to share your videos with the world.

[Folkmusician.com]

I work with a local music school that has around 250+ students. We are currently working on taking it online. I am not sure that online instruction is better than learning in person, but there are so many students out there that do not have access to good local instructors, can't make it in to take lessons, or simply prefer the convenience of doing it online.

I only see one issue with live online lessons. The latency. The teacher and student can not play along together. Of course, there are also technical issues with the less computer savvy as well. Be it the teacher or the student.

Pre-recorded lessons are great, but it is best to reinforce this with the live lesson to catch and correct bad habits.

So far, I have not seen anything that suggests the online students are progressing any slower than those that take lessons in person (or vise versa).
We have a limited sampling of students that are strictly online, so I am not sure of this yet.

[9lbShellhamer]

We have an awesome local music school here, but finding the time is challenging to get into classes. I take lessons online from a popular and talented player and I couldn't be happier. I love that if I miss a class...(there are usually 10-40 of us in the electronic classroom), I can watch my class the following day. It's great. I've taken many sessions and plan on continuing.

[BradKlein]

Thanks, folks.

After playing forever, I've felt really lucky to find a great local teacher. But it's expensive, and I've been thinking myself of moving toward online learning for a while. Makes this a good time to hear folks' experiences and to be working on this story for the Cafe.

[bigskygirl]

I've been Skyping for a couple of years now and find it to work just fine, sometimes there are interference issues but overall I'd say 98% of the time it works great. You can't both talk at the same time but each should be listening to the other anyway. We do manage to play together, at my skill level it is not hard for my teacher to keep up with me..

I also have two weekly jam groups to attend and friends to get together with regularly so playing with others is not an issue.

I like the one on one learning, it's a dynamic environment where I can ask questions and follow up in ways that is just not possible with a canned recording or group setting. It's a bit more expensive than a local instructor or recorded workshop but I have a professional giving me lessons...lots of them Skype now and are pretty accommodating schedule-wise.

The big issue is internet connectivity, if one lives in a part of the country with poor service (there are still some out there) Skype and other live streaming sessions are not an option.

[Cosmic Graffiti]

Hi,

I have experience with both online and in person. They are both great and anyone who wants to progress musically is really cheating themselves by not engaging with a great teacher.

When I started looking into learning the mandolin (January of 2016) I learned the basic chords and immediately recognized that mandolin technique was really tricky and subtle in its beauty. I watched a lot of videos and listened to a lot of people play the mandolin and saw a very large gap in players/teachers. They were all over the board from crazy great to guitar strummers on the mandolin and a whole lot of in-between. After listening and studying I decided that I wanted to really play the mandolin...not just strum it and pluck it but really play it in all its beauty. For this I needed a teacher to work with on a curriculum that would lead me in that direction. Coming from a classical violin background I believe in good technique.

I started to look for a teacher locally and I found a whole bunch of the following:
- Guitar teachers that taught mandolin on the side
- Guitar teachers that think they teach mandolin on the side
- Violin teachers that taught mandolin on the side (cause the same note ya know)
- Mandolin, banjo, guitar, dulcimer etc....teachers that also teach keyboard
- Folk musicians that I could learn some tunes from but not really theory

None of these appealed to me as a musician. I wanted a MANDOLIN teacher. One that could teach me every aspect of the mandolin from Basic technique and theory to.....who knows where it could go? In other words I wanted a teacher that had a huge diverse repertoire and a respect for technique and theory but....could also just jam and have a great time on the instrument. I could not find this locally so started looking online.

I researched a lot of sites and teachers and found my current teacher Don Julin. After a 30 minute start up class I knew that he was the teacher I needed to reach my goals. We started online lessons the next week.

I was super concerned that I would not get much out of an online class as I have not tried it before. Until this point any music lessons I had were face to face. I am not technically challenged at all so it was an easy transition for me as I use a lot of online interface in my business.

I have been taking online lessons Since February and now can say that I prefer them to face to face.

- Convenience
- More comfortable (sitting in my office)
- More relaxed (No rushing to get to lessons)
- Better teacher/student fit as you have the whole world of teachers to choose from.
- Perks...if your teacher is teaching on line then they are most likely savvy on the computer so will have a lot of material resources to work with that ultimately save your class time for valuable information and critique.

I use all of the online tools that my teacher offers and practice super hard and am prepared for each lesson so that when I get that one on one time we can focus on the areas that I am struggling with or areas that are new. We Skype and quite often we will be working on a piece and he will say "hold on let me make this into a track and send it to you.....) 2 minutes later it pops up and I have a track on my ipad ready to use. So the accessibility to resources is huge.

I love online learning and am super happy with the results that I am achieving.

I hope this helps anyone that is looking into it.

Steve

[LillianBelle]

I started to look for a teacher locally and I found a whole bunch of the following:
- Guitar teachers that taught mandolin on the side
- Guitar teachers that think they teach mandolin on the side
- Violin teachers that taught mandolin on the side (cause the same note ya know)
- Mandolin, banjo, guitar, dulcimer etc....teachers that also teach keyboard
- Folk musicians that I could learn some tunes from but not really theory

Add:
Good mandolin players who are mediocre instructors.

Playing and teaching are separate skills that don't always go hand-in-hand. Currently taking lessons with someone I'd say is a pretty good player (I like the fact that he plays a wide variety of music) but we are not clicking as teacher and student. I don't appreciate the lack of written materials and his habit of having me video record something played full speed and then I have to take it home, slow it to half speed and try to figure out the fingering while the tune is so painfully slow that the melody and rhythm are lost.

[Cosmic Graffiti]

Add:
Good mandolin players who are mediocre instructors.

LillianBelle, yes that is one for the list for sure. Great add.

[ziapack]

On line instruction isn't an option for me. I live in a very rural, isolated area in New Mexico and broadband internet is not available. The cable is too expensive to run to my place and providers won't consider the expense. Telephone line connection for broadband requires that you are within 4 miles of a switch station or hub I'm roughly 12 miles from the nearest station. The only option for high speed internet (and I use the term high speed rather loosely), is satellite dish. The problem with satellite dish is what they term "fair access policy" which in a nut shell means restricted upload/download data usage. Due to the amount of information a specific satellite can process, multiplied by the number of people accessing that data requires the restriction of data transmission by each individual. Once that limit is exceeded you are effectively timed out for the remainder of the month. You can access more data for a fee, but the cost is prohibitive for me. Skype, Youtube, streaming movies, that kind of data usage, is not practical. You can watch a few youtube videos, but that puts you over the threshold rapidly. Watching a movie would shut you down for the month. Skype lessons are about like Youtube, you can dabble but not really do much. The price one pays for living remote, I suppose I could move into the city, but then, there are people there......

[Ryk Loske]

I'm a fan of Artistworks. As has been said above ... i'm not interested in sending in videos. But the rest of what's available there suits my needs.

A new thing for me has been Don Sternberg's offerings on Soundslice. For a few years running i've had the chance to study with Don at Mandolin Camp North and find his smile, voice and insights helpful additions to the information he supplies so generously in workshops.

Ryk

[Tempotantrum]

I have done Artist works for a long time and now I am using peghead nation for the Monroe style. I dont know if I just dig the full on Monroe style more or what but I am really enjoying these more than any other instruction I have used-including a library full of books and dvds. I benefit most from looking at the tab for general fingering and then watching Mike for the proper timing and attack. Plus if you are a Monroe history buff there is that!

[yankees1]

My vote is for skype lessons with Pete Martin at pete@petimarpress.com !

[Mark Wilson]

I'm working on a story (in part) about the experience of teaching and studying music online. Obviously, it's changed the economics of, and opportunities for music instruction in a huge way in recent years.

I wonder if folks have any particular hints for getting the most out of online lessons (mandolin or whatever)... or for GIVING lessons online.

Any pitfalls to avoid? Contrast with your experiences with in person learning?

Thanks!

interesting questions in the op - not one of them asked for a lists of favorite sites

[Ashby Frank]

I teach both online and in person and that's my major gripe with it. I like to be able to play along, and I think that gives a nice guide to the student. That being said, I make demo videos to email or text to the student to recap what we've gone over both for my in person students and my Skype/FaceTime students. With the online students, it's much more important to give a few extra videos with backing tracks with a guitar or mandolin so that they have the same experience of "playing along" in real time.

-Ashby

[Ashby Frank]

Add:
Good mandolin players who are mediocre instructors.

Playing and teaching are separate skills that don't always go hand-in-hand. Currently taking lessons with someone I'd say is a pretty good player (I like the fact that he plays a wide variety of music) but we are not clicking as teacher and student. I don't appreciate the lack of written materials and his habit of having me video record something played full speed and then I have to take it home, slow it to half speed and try to figure out the fingering while the tune is so painfully slow that the melody and rhythm are lost.

I understand your frustration with the "full speed" aspect, I usually make a video with both a slower and a full speed version of a tune or technique.
That being said, I'm curious about your desire to have more written material. Are you learning to play by ear or by tab or notation?

[Barry Wilson]

I work long hours and a fair drive to and from work. I have internet access at home and work. On my days off I gig a lot and try to find time to learn and/or record material. My first day off work I pretty much hide in the man cave so the sheer convenience of being able to learn when it fits my schedule rather than drive somewhere in the little time off I have (and maybe not the time of day I want to play) makes the online learning easier to attend.

also cost is a factor for many. the online lessons will get more people to be able to learn due to it's low cost.

[BradKlein]

Thanks again for all the thoughtful answers and comments, folks. I've enjoyed reading them and they helped me clarify my own questions on the subject.

[Don Julin]

I find that Skype or FaceTime lessons can be just as good and in many cases better than the traditional live session. As a teacher I need to be more organized to teach online. I like to send pdfs, mp3's and links to my students so they can get the most out of the lesson. I am also a big fan of recorded video lessons where the student can watch the lesson as many times. That combined with bi-weekly or even monthly check-ups seem to get the best results. Currently I am building a website that will host hundreds of lessons that my students can have access to. Later this year this site will be launched to the public and will be a subscription based leaning site. Some folks can get all they need from a video lesson and some need a little help. I will offer memberships for either way. Obviously the premium membership will cost more but for the student that can learn online by watching videos, and using practice tracks, this will be very affordable. I am not a big fan of the video exchange as it leaves some students feeling uncomfortable with the entire world watching them screw up Soldier's Joy.
Any way you look at it, we are in an era where learning to play the mandolin has never been more affordable and accessible. Today there is no reason to take mandolin lessons at your local music shop from a guitar player that happens to own a mandolin.
Happy Pickin'
Don

[Isaac Revard]

Later this year this site will be launched to the public and will be a subscription based leaning site.
Don

Don,
Sign me up.
MZ
(former army medic in WA state, now in Indy)

[colorado_al]

I have tried skype, artistworks and youtube.

I found artistworks to be costly and not effective for me. The best part about it, the video submission and critique, took way too long to turn around. On the order of a month to get a response to my submission. I get that Mike Marshall is a touring musician and that he has little time to respond to all of the videos that he gets. I guess Artistworks is a bit of a victim of their own success. It just seemed that learning through that process took forever. I submit a 5 min video and wait 4 weeks to get 5 min in return. Sure I can have access to all of MM's lessons in the meantime, but that isn't really like having a "teacher". More like a video lesson and a 5 min review 12 times a year.

I have taken skype lessons and that was more helpful, but the technology is still lacking. The sound quality sucks, and the lag makes it pretty hard to actually converse real time. More like using a CB radio (if any of you are familiar with that ancient tech). You each need to wait until the other is done and then trade who is speaking/playing etc. Better than Artistworks, but still missing a lot of what a good in person lesson can do.

The best resource that I have found online, is Don Julin's youtube video series.
I see that I'm following his post and I want to say thank you to Don. Those videos, coupled with his book, have been great! I'm looking forward to checking out his new site.

All that being said, for me, there is no replacement for a good local instructor. I'm lucky to live somewhere that has a great university music program and I have an excellent mandolin teacher. For those who are not as lucky, online is great. I'd rather spend $40 an hour for an in person lesson once a week. The feedback that I can get is better than anyone viewing on skype can give: how I hold the pick, posture, breathing, angle of my fingers, volume modulation, hand positioning, etc. All subtleties that are lost in computer translation. Plus I can spend 15 minutes after the lesson jamming with my teacher to practice what I just learned and hear how it sounds to play with another musician.

[kurth83]

I prefer a live teacher, and have found online Skype lessons to work really well.

[red7flag]

I am in a situation where I have little free time and very little ability to predict when that free time will occur. About three months ago after reading a thread about Banjo Ben Clark, here at the MC, I got a three month "Gold Pick" membership. This allows you to see videos, download tabs and MP3s of a given song (some older tunes may not have an MP3. I found that he is a very solid teacher and that my playing has steadily improved over the past three months. He also helped make me approach up the neck playing in a way that finally works. His scale tabs allowed me to have an epiphany of understanding and playing that eluded me over the past 20 years of playing. I just re upped for a second three months, with no hesitation.

[Mandoplumb]

One thing that hasn't been discussed-- how good is the teacher whatever format is used. A great mandolin player may be a poor teacher and vice versa.I'm not saying that " those that can do and those that can't teach" although that is sometime true. My dad was one of the best musicians I've know amateur or professional but a poor teacher, he didn't know why he played what he played it was just what he heard in his head and brought it out thru the instrument.