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Thread: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

  1. #1
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    Default [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Hi all!

    First of all, sorry for my bad english (I'm not mothertongue)

    My name is Luca, I'm from Italy and this is my first post on this forum... I think this is probably the best mandolin forum all over the world, that's why I'm looking for your help!

    I'm a self-taught amateur folk guitar player, this is my equipment:

    - Ovation Standard Ballader 1861 AX-5
    - Fender Stratocaster Mexico
    - Hohner Marine Band (C, G, E keys)
    - Line6 POD HD300

    Waiting for graduation gift (Martin D-18E or D-35E Retro: 2 years left!), I'm looking for another upgrade: my first mandolin!

    I'm a newbie and I'm unable to find a shop (here in Italy) where I can try and compare mandolins (they have just poor quality mandolins, around 50-100$). For this reason, I can only read reviews and hear youtube videos and... ask for your help!

    I made a lot of researches (on this forum, youtube,...) and I found 3 brands that might be fine and suit my preferences: Eastman, The Loar, Kentucky.

    - budget: 600/1000€
    - F-Style preferred*
    - Folk music tone
    - availability in EU**
    - easy to play with a big hand***

    *I know there's not a sound improvement from A to F-style, but I really love appearence of F-style
    **EUR/USD exchange rate is good, but import taxes and shipping costs are too much high... Shipping cost is around 80$ and import taxes are around 30% of price+shipping costs!
    ***L size: widht: 3,5" (9cm) - lenght 7,9" (20cm)

    Below, a table with some list price compared across different countries (US, UK, IR) and currencies (USD, GBP, EUR).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Best shop seems Kieran Moloney in Galway (the green one in table): CA bridge and full setup are available, good list price and not too expensive shipping costs.

    Actual buying ranking:

    1) The Loar LM700VS = 950€ (mandolin /w hardfoam case: 775€, shipping cost: 20€, full set-up /w CA bridge: 155€)
    2) Eastman MD315 = 975€ (mandolin: 800€, shipping cost: 20€, full set-up /w CA bridge: 155€ - case???)
    3) The Loar LM600VS = 850€ (mandolin /w featherweight case: 675€, shipping cost: 20€, full set-up /w CA bridge: 155€)
    4) Eastman MD305 = 755€ (mandolin: 580€, shipping cost: 20€, full set-up /w CA bridge: 155€ - case???)
    5) The Loar LM400 = 625€ (mandolin: 450€, shipping cost: 20€, full set-up /w CA bridge: 155€ - case???)

    It seems Eastman mandolins are too expensive here in EU! MD315 is at same price as LM700... While list prices have 30% of difference in US...

    Thanks for any advice!
    Last edited by MrEma93; May-26-2016 at 8:33am.

  2. #2

    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Luca, you've got a solid list of mandolins there... research well done!

    You may want to look for a "Blemished" or slightly used model to save money. Many students will purchase their first mandolin and then decide to upgrade to something like a Collings MT or Northfield A in a year, which means there are many fine lightly used mandolins available in the classifieds. Further, if the instrument is used, you may not have the same customs/import responsibility.

    Best of luck,
    David

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Quote Originally Posted by dschonbrun View Post
    Luca, you've got a solid list of mandolins there... research well done!

    You may want to look for a "Blemished" or slightly used model to save money. Many students will purchase their first mandolin and then decide to upgrade to something like a Collings MT or Northfield A in a year, which means there are many fine lightly used mandolins available in the classifieds. Further, if the instrument is used, you may not have the same customs/import responsibility.

    Best of luck,
    David
    Hi David! Thanks for reply!

    I'd prefer to buy new stuff for two reasons:

    1) sometimes you have to pay import taxes also with used items or gifts! That's unbelievable, but I read a lot of complaints online! It already happened...
    2) blemishes, scratches or other imperfections look different to different people... Unfortunately I'm the man who sees them bigger! I'm a kind of... "perfection maniac"? (how do you say in english?)

    Anyways, where can I find a MD315 used?

    Another question: is LM700 better than MD315?

  5. #4

    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Hello Luca,

    Welcome to the Cafe! Researching a new mandolin is always exciting.

    The models that you are looking at are all among the top choice for the price range, so you really can't go wrong with any of them.


    One thing I did want to point out though....
    It can be risky importing a mandolin from the US to Italy (if you go this route). I have sent packages there, but ultimately stopped shipping to Italy after I had a lost package and did some research:

    Country Conditions for Mailing — Italy


    Prohibitions
    http://pe.usps.com/text/imm/il_008.htm

    "Bells and other musical instruments and parts thereof."
    -------


    http://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immc1_010.htm#ep1001538

    131.32 Prohibited and Restricted Articles

    Articles that are prohibited by the destination country are nonmailable. For mail known to contain articles restricted by the destination country, the sender must be informed of the restrictions and advised that the articles are subject to the import requirements of that country.

    131.33 Return or Seizure of Mail

    A country may return or seize mail containing articles prohibited or restricted within that country, whether or not notice of such prohibition or restriction has been provided to or published by the Postal Service.

    31.4 Mailer Responsibility

    Regardless of any statement in this manual or the statement of any employee of the United States Postal Service, the burden rests with the mailer to ensure compliance with domestic, international, and individual country rules and regulations for mailability.
    --------

    In short: Your mandolin can be confiscated with no reimbursement. Any insurance will be void, since the mandolin was not legal to ship. You may be perfectly fine, or you might be one of the unlucky ones. Just wanted you to be aware of this.
    Robert Fear
    http://www.folkmusician.com

    "Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.
    " - Pete Seeger

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    If you can't find one locally, I think your best bet is to buy an Eastman MD505 from Trevor at TAMCO
    http://www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk/

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Quote Originally Posted by Folkmusician.com View Post
    Hello Luca,

    Welcome to the Cafe! Researching a new mandolin is always exciting.

    The models that you are looking at are all among the top choice for the price range, so you really can't go wrong with any of them.


    One thing I did want to point out though....
    It can be risky importing a mandolin from the US to Italy (if you go this route). I have sent packages there, but ultimately stopped shipping to Italy after I had a lost package and did some research:

    Country Conditions for Mailing — Italy


    Prohibitions
    http://pe.usps.com/text/imm/il_008.htm

    "Bells and other musical instruments and parts thereof."
    -------


    http://pe.usps.com/text/imm/immc1_010.htm#ep1001538

    131.32 Prohibited and Restricted Articles

    Articles that are prohibited by the destination country are nonmailable. For mail known to contain articles restricted by the destination country, the sender must be informed of the restrictions and advised that the articles are subject to the import requirements of that country.

    131.33 Return or Seizure of Mail

    A country may return or seize mail containing articles prohibited or restricted within that country, whether or not notice of such prohibition or restriction has been provided to or published by the Postal Service.

    31.4 Mailer Responsibility

    Regardless of any statement in this manual or the statement of any employee of the United States Postal Service, the burden rests with the mailer to ensure compliance with domestic, international, and individual country rules and regulations for mailability.
    --------

    In short: Your mandolin can be confiscated with no reimbursement. Any insurance will be void, since the mandolin was not legal to ship. You may be perfectly fine, or you might be one of the unlucky ones. Just wanted you to be aware of this.
    Wow! Thank you very much Robert! You've just saved me! The question now is: why is it prohibited?
    I bought my Ovation from a Nashville shop a long time ago... But I thought it hadn't changed that much!

    Then... At same price, would you buy MD315 or LM700? Is CA bridge worth 70 more euros? (something like 80$)
    Honestly I like a little bit more the MD315 matt finish than the glossy one of LM700, but I like also LM700 look!
    It seems that LM700 is better on sheet (higher list price in US), but... In practice?

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    If you can't find one locally, I think your best bet is to buy an Eastman MD505 from Trevor at TAMCO
    http://www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk/
    I can't find informations about setup and shipping costs on that site!
    Is there a big difference between MD305/MD315 and MD505? What about LM700 vs MD505?

    Thanks !

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrEma93 View Post
    I can't find informations about setup and shipping costs on that site!
    Is there a big difference between MD305/MD315 and MD505? What about LM700 vs MD505?

    Thanks !
    Contact Trevor. He is the go-to guy for mandolins in Europe. Shipping to Italy is £30.
    I think the upgrades from the Eastman 300 series to the 500 series are worth the price.
    Better tuning machines, better case instead of gig-bag, better finish. I would buy an Eastman MD505 instead of an Eastman MD315 any day.
    Anyhow, contact TAMCO.

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  13. #9

    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrEma93 View Post
    I can't find informations about setup and shipping costs on that site!
    Is there a big difference between MD305/MD315 and MD505? What about LM700 vs MD505?

    Thanks !
    The 305 is an A style, the 315 an F-style. Specs are otherwise the same... but the F-style will provide a bit more maturity in low end frequencies and perhaps chop better for bluegrass.

    The MD505 has slightly better woods, is bound on the top, and has a gloss finish. I bought an MD505 as my first mandolin and it was an excellent choice.

    D

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    +1 to starting your mando search with Trevor @ TAMCO...
    1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed


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  17. #11

    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Wow! Thank you very much Robert! You've just saved me! The question now is: why is it prohibited?
    I bought my Ovation from a Nashville shop a long time ago... But I thought it hadn't changed that much!
    This is one of those things that may or may not ever be enforced (or be prohibited at all), but should they choose to (if it is a law), they have the legal right to take the mandolin with no compensation to you. I would check the laws on your end to be sure. I don't think this is anything new. There are a few stories on the internet of problems, but plenty that also had no problems. I assume this is to protect the Italian makers.

    Then... At same price, would you buy MD315 or LM700?
    Tough call... I have had quite a few customers play Eastman and The Loar back to back, and it turns out to be personal preference.

    Is CA bridge worth 70 more euros? (something like 80$)
    for $80? Absolutely, but that sounds like too low of a price. Is this installed, and if so, is it fit well? It is very time consuming to do a good bridge fitting from a bridge blank.

    Honestly I like a little bit more the MD315 matt finish than the glossy one of LM700, but I like also LM700 look!
    It seems that LM700 is better on sheet (higher list price in US), but... In practice?
    It will really come down to personal preference and without trying them in person, it probably doesn't matter too much which you choose.
    Robert Fear
    http://www.folkmusician.com

    "Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.
    " - Pete Seeger

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Quote Originally Posted by Folkmusician.com View Post
    for $80? Absolutely, but that sounds like too low of a price. Is this installed, and if so, is it fit well? It is very time consuming to do a good bridge fitting from a bridge blank.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    that's what they wrote on their website!

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    Contact Trevor. He is the go-to guy for mandolins in Europe. Shipping to Italy is £30.
    I think the upgrades from the Eastman 300 series to the 500 series are worth the price.
    Better tuning machines, better case instead of gig-bag, better finish. I would buy an Eastman MD505 instead of an Eastman MD315 any day.
    Anyhow, contact TAMCO.
    Quote Originally Posted by dschonbrun View Post
    The 305 is an A style, the 315 an F-style. Specs are otherwise the same... but the F-style will provide a bit more maturity in low end frequencies and perhaps chop better for bluegrass.

    The MD505 has slightly better woods, is bound on the top, and has a gloss finish. I bought an MD505 as my first mandolin and it was an excellent choice.

    D
    I'll try to send an email for setup info! Thank you guys!

    Can't find the post where i read that for folk music should be better 300 series instead of 500 series!


    P.S. I'm going to play with another guitar, and maybe some other instrument (something like Mumford and Sons, REM, Mandoline Orange,...)

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Either of the 315 or 700 will make you quite happy. Iirc, the 700 has a slightly wider nut, which may accomodate your larger hands better, but if you do well on your Ovation (mine has the narrowest but of any acoustic I've played), you should have no problem with either. I own a 315 and like it. I've also liked the 700s I've played. Go with the best deal and set up, IMHO. Good luck!!
    Chuck

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrEma93 View Post
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    that's what they wrote on their website!
    Ahh.. I see, there is an additional charge for fitting. That sounds right.


    For folk music, you may prefer an Oval Hole. It wouldn't matter if it were a 300 or 500 though.
    Robert Fear
    http://www.folkmusician.com

    "Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.
    " - Pete Seeger

  22. #15
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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Even tho all you can find around you are cheaper ones, you should go and play as many as you can find. Because there is a big difference between the eastmans and the loars Eastman has a thinner neck loars wider and bigger fretts and not radius . Check out what you play to see what you like and dont like , i know you're new to mandolins but since you play guitar you may have an idea about feel of an instrument. Once you find the feel
    look for that (size of frets neck width radius or not in a better quality mandolin.
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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Quote Originally Posted by CES View Post
    Either of the 315 or 700 will make you quite happy. Iirc, the 700 has a slightly wider nut, which may accomodate your larger hands better, but if you do well on your Ovation (mine has the narrowest but of any acoustic I've played), you should have no problem with either. I own a 315 and like it. I've also liked the 700s I've played. Go with the best deal and set up, IMHO. Good luck!!
    Yeah! Mine too! I can't play A chord with 3 fingers for example... I have to play it with 1 finger (half bar)... Can it be a problem with a mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Folkmusician.com View Post
    Ahh.. I see, there is an additional charge for fitting. That sounds right.


    For folk music, you may prefer an Oval Hole. It wouldn't matter if it were a 300 or 500 though.
    Really? Why? Marcus Mumford plays Gibson F5-G, the guy in Mandoline Orange plays an A-Style...

    Quote Originally Posted by darrylicshon View Post
    Even tho all you can find around you are cheaper ones, you should go and play as many as you can find. Because there is a big difference between the eastmans and the loars Eastman has a thinner neck loars wider and bigger fretts and not radius . Check out what you play to see what you like and dont like , i know you're new to mandolins but since you play guitar you may have an idea about feel of an instrument. Once you find the feel
    look for that (size of frets neck width radius or not in a better quality mandolin.
    Unfortunately there are no near shops with mandolin... 1h car is needed for nearest and this shop have like 1 or 2 mandolins... The only thing I have to compare is an Ovation with thin neck... Maybe also a friend's ukulele (cheap one... 30€...)

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    I think the varying nut widths offer choice and preferences, but I don't think either are really an "issue." I know guys with bigger hands who actually prefer the narrower width because it makes barre chords easier for them. I don't think there's enough of a difference between those two to make or break the deal. The Breedlove Crossover is another wide nut I've played...not as nice as either of these,IMO, at least not the older versions with laminate back/sides. Again, there's a small difference, but only a small one...
    Chuck

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    In that price range, look at the next higher tier of Eastmans - I've played an Eastman MD505, and it's an absolutely gorgeous mandolin in every respect.

    You may also be able to find a Gibson A Style in decent condition for under $1000.

    If you don't pan on playing acoustic but rather amplify the instrument, the subtle differences like f-hole vs oval hole may not matter that much. The oval hole tone is generally* considered to be better for celtic and european folk, while f-holes are generally* seen as better for bluegrass and such.


    * Note: varies from person to person.
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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Quote Originally Posted by CES View Post
    I think the varying nut widths offer choice and preferences, but I don't think either are really an "issue." I know guys with bigger hands who actually prefer the narrower width because it makes barre chords easier for them. I don't think there's enough of a difference between those two to make or break the deal. The Breedlove Crossover is another wide nut I've played...not as nice as either of these,IMO, at least not the older versions with laminate back/sides. Again, there's a small difference, but only a small one...
    I think that at the end I'll go with the one I like most (even if it's a hard choice)

    - Eastman MD315 = 975€ (mandolin: 800€, shipping cost: 20€, full setup /w CA bridge: 155€ - case?)
    - Eastman MD505 = 860€ (mandolin /w hard case: 820€, shipping cost: 40€, full setup: ???)
    - The Loar LM700VS = 950€ (mandolin /w hardfoam case: 775€, shipping cost: 20€, full setup /w CA bridge: 155€)

    First of all, I have to retrieve some information about MD315 case (Kieran Moloney Shop) and MD505 setup (The Acoustic Music Company)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    In that price range, look at the next higher tier of Eastmans - I've played an Eastman MD505, and it's an absolutely gorgeous mandolin in every respect.

    You may also be able to find a Gibson A Style in decent condition for under $1000.

    If you don't pan on playing acoustic but rather amplify the instrument, the subtle differences like f-hole vs oval hole may not matter that much. The oval hole tone is generally* considered to be better for celtic and european folk, while f-holes are generally* seen as better for bluegrass and such.


    * Note: varies from person to person.
    Unfortunately, I can't find a used Gibson mandolin here in Italy... neither other brands...

    I'm going to play acoustic (at least initially)... I watched a couple of youtube videos, I like more the f-holes sound than the oval-hole one (hard to find differences on youtube videos tought)

    UPDATE:
    I've just talked with Kieran, new prices:

    - Eastman MD315 = 995€ (mandolin: 800€, shipping cost: 20€, full setup /w CA bridge: 110€ - hard case: 65€)
    - Eastman MD505 = 860€ (mandolin /w hard case: 820€, shipping cost: 40€, full setup: ???)
    - The Loar LM700VS = 950€ (mandolin /w hardfoam case: 775€, shipping cost: 20€, full setup /w CA bridge: 155€)
    Last edited by MrEma93; May-27-2016 at 1:30pm.

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Eastman mandolins come with a bridge that will sound good as long as you get it setup right. Though they are great, I wouldn't spend money on a Cumberland bridge.

  30. #21

    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Of the set you've listed, I would go with the MD 505. The only thing you'll want to add is a strap button installed by Keiran by the heel of the neck. Have him do that before it's shipped, and get a simple soft leather strap to start.

    Best,
    D

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Good choices Luca. I was in a music store in Amsterdam (and I do not recall the name of it) last September. They had very good prices on Eastmans. If I remember correctly, a 305 was less than 500 Euros and all were set-up nicely.
    My opinion is that the extra money paid for a f style is money spent for other people to see what they like to look at. If you become an owner of a nice playing A style, you will soon forget the infatuation with the look of a f style and come to embrace your A style. Or least I did, especially when I count the left over $$$ I saved for myself rather than spend it on other people's eyes.
    I do own one f style that is considered one of my lesser instruments. I bought it not because of the scroll, but because I was so dammed impressed with the set-up and playability, I didn't care if it had a laminate top and scroll.
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  33. #23

    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    I like to put my money into tone, so my A style MD 505 was, for me, the way to go.

    I'd only buy a F style if I were moving up from the likes of a Collings MT. I wish........

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Here you go.
    Eastman MD505 used from the classifieds £400:
    http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/98525#98525
    Bought from and setup by TAMCO

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    Default Re: [FIRST MANDOLIN] The Loar, Eastman, Kentucky?

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    Here you go.
    Eastman MD505 used from the classifieds £400:
    http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/98525#98525
    Bought from and setup by TAMCO
    I agree, buy that one and save yourself 300€!

    You can also tie the strap around the body under the fretboard extension, which I much prefer over a strap button. Here's a photo:
    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/at...8&d=1405278219

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    Velocipede: My Fiddle Tune Duo
    Old Time Mandolin: Solo Old Time Mandolin Album

  38. The following members say thank you to Baron Collins-Hill for this post:


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