Best CHEAP mixer for a live band ?

[Astro]

Well I got the Soundcraft ui 16. It took me a few hours to configure out the connection set up to my lap top and phone. I told you I was a techno zero. I almost took it back in defeat. Boy am I glad I didnt. ...I think....

I havent even hooked it up to plug in yet. Just learning the basic operations and some of the features. Its a steep learning curve for me because I am new to everything. I'm learning the basics of analogue mixing theory, digital mixing theory, and theory of running Live Sound all at the same time. It would have been way easier for those with a foundation to build on.

But I've already become familiar with the layout of the displays and I have to say I'm loving it. Well organized and powerful and fast. One disappointment is I dont see how this can be run from a smart phone for anything but eq. I don't have a tablet so I'll have to bring my laptop which will be cumbersome, but very easy to read.

Also the master eq did not come with any eq presets on mine. I did already upload the latest software up date. I assume it had everything that is new. I did not upload the previous updates, but maybe I should have ? So I really don't know what to do with that huge band (34?) master eq. It did have one master compression preset called "vintage". It looked like a pretty mild "soft knee" compression. I'll try it. I dont know anything to do with the AFS except to turn it "on". It has a lot of variable controls to it that I know nothing about. I assume the fixed and live setting are for ringing out the monitors. We dont have monitors yet. We just tilt the K-10's in.

I've got a lot to learn but this thing makes it more fun for sure. I will be able to go out front and hear for myself the eq changes as the band plays. Especially excited to try the vocal eq presets as we never knew what we were doing trying to eq our vocals with the analogue mixer.

I will use this at our bar gig tonight. It could be very interesting...

[almeriastrings]

Tonight? Brave!

OK. Just a few quick points (as I have to take one of my dogs to the veterinarian shortly).

1. All functions, mix, input levels, FX are available on your Smartphone. Just choose the smaller of the two formats when launching.

2. There are no general EQ presets on the mains, as really, these are totally material/room dependent. Start with them flat, and only adjust as necessary. You can then save specific ones for each room/venue. That big graphic EQ is exactly like a physical one.

3. AFS: make sure it is turned on... and start in FIXED mode. Make sure GATES on mics are off. MAINS right down, now raise them until you hear FB starting... you will now see the LEFT HAND column start to fill up as major resonances and feedback filters identify problems and lock on.. there are 6 of them. When full, bring your MAIN/MASTER volume down to performance level and change to 'LIVE' mode. These will rarely engage...

4. Presets are only a starting point, but can be helpful in getting you in the general ballpark.

[almeriastrings]

1. All functions, mix, input levels, FX are available on your Smartphone. Just choose the smaller of the two formats when launching.

Should add... to change screens touch the key with 4 vertical lines, directly to the right of the symbol showing a 'floppy disc' (which saves snapshots) at the top of the main output fader. This button opens the meters, aux send, gain and edit screens.

Good luck with the show.

[Astro]

Just got home from the first gig using this mixer. We are all very pleased. The bartender said we sounded the best ever. Very clean. Compared to our old Mackie Pro fx, we actually felt the mixer itself helped us sound better. I had pre programed everyones parameters ahead of time (I just guessed what settings for each track after reading up a bit). So I just had to do some fader adjustments at the sound check. Also, I went ahead and fired it up this afternoon prior to the gig and spent an hour tweaking my mandolin beforehand. It sounded great.

I tried to read and understand the AFS2 settings and I appreciate Almeriastrings comments, but its complicated and I'm not at all sure I did it right. But we had no feedback anyway. I did not try any effects. I did put a 100 db high pass filter on every channel and engaged the deSSer on the vocal tracks but other than that I left all the eq's flat.

The only thing that was annoying is that the wifi would periodically switch over to the bar's wifi (x-finity) which I guess must be a stronger signal or something. I'm not sure why my lap top would switch. It doesnt knock the sound out or anything when the connection is lost --its just that when I wanted to change something or mute, I'd have to reconnect to the wifi of the soundcraft again. I dont know if there is a setting on my MacBook Pro that would keep it from switching or not ? I may try to pick up a very long fire wire cable and just plug in to prevent this.

If anyone knows whether my computer can be made not to switch, please let me know. But it doesnt take long to reconnect and overall I am thrilled with the purchase and the switch to digital mixing. And I'm just scratching the surface of this thing. We are psyched !

[almeriastrings]

The internal wi-fi hotspot on these (and other, similar) mixers is a bit of a compromise. It is fine for rehearsing and setting up,but the antenna is usually down at floor level... not high up where you really need it. Normally, it is best to use an external wireless router that you can set up with a manual, fixed IP address and you can position high up on the stage well out of the way of obstructions. Even a super compact, low cost router will give you better results (more range, better stability) than the internal hotspot. The little TP Link NANO works well with these mixers, as does the TP Link 940N. You run these via an Ethernet cable from the mixer... both are very low cost, but have a proven track record of compatibility with the Ui mixers.

Other tips for improving connectivity include making sure your tablet or computer's 'sleep' or battery saving modes are off when doing mixing duties, and using your Mac's wif-fi preferences to 'forget' the network it keeps automatically connecting to.

This is good practice with all wireless mixers.

I'd suggest testing the AFS during rehearsals to get a good idea of how it really works. It is very transparent and effective (based on the DBX AFS2). There are 12 super narrow filters. Six fixed (used in setup), and six 'floating' to catch live feedback if it occurs.

Glad it all went well. As you get familiar with what it can do, you'll like it even more

[Bob Visentin]

Bought one (Soundcraft ui 16) Monday. VERY cool. I no longer need to pack the Mackie board, the EQ, the out board effects, or the snake. Better yet I don't have to remember how to hook all this stuff up or pull my hair out when it doesn't work when I first turn it on (about 50% of the time). With this and the Bose sticks my set up has become very easy and simple.
Any body want to buy some equipment cheap?

[almeriastrings]

It is actually kind of interesting to add it all up. What would, say, 12 channels of compression, plus a few graphic EQ's, plus some anti-feedback systems, plus a couple of channels of amp modelling (for say, Bass DI), plus 12 channels of parametric EQ and some really good reverb, chorus and delay FX, then all the long cable runs end up costing in the analog world? Also what would it all weigh? How long to hook it up and break it down? It is quite a big number....

[derbex]

To resurrect this thread, my 'band' is thinking about a mixer and we have around £130 to spend. I have looked at some of the big gear sites and I am just confused. How do I equate the number of advertised channels to the number of things I cam plug in?

We played a gig at a care home yesterday through our various amps and used 3 mics -none needed Phantom power, 1 instrument mic that did and 2 piezo pickups. Ideally we may want a couple more mics of some sort, but can do without.

Is it realistic to think we can get something to control this lot in that small budget.

As context the amplification is mainly used so that the melody instruments can be heard over the acoustic guitar 'wall of rhythm', we thought if we used a mixer into one or 2 amps it would be easier than the 4 or 5 amps we had yesterday.

Also is there any idiots guide that I could use to read up on this.

[almeriastrings]

Is it realistic to think we can get something to control this lot in that small budget.

No, not really. That is really pushing it. There's really not much out there for £130 ($180) that will give you the required number of inputs (I'd say you need a minimum of 6 X XLR inputs, preferably 8) to take microphones, DI boxes or instruments, and ideally, a couple of these should offer super Hi-Z so you can plug piezo pickups into them.

A mixer is an important part of you sound, so it is worth going for decent quality. In small analogue mixers the classic recommendations are the Allen & Heath ZED range (one with enough mic inputs to suit your needs) or the Soundcraft EFX8 or EFX12. On a super-tight budget I can also recommend the ALTO 1202. These are pretty decent and excellent value. You get a lot of inputs for your money.

You could also look for something used - but beware of faults, noisy faders, etc. If you are not very technically savvy with audio gear, be wary of used bargains.

Good books:

BASIC LIVE SOUND

SOS Guide to Live sound (this one is more comprehensive and up to date, including some info on digital desks, etc).

[derbex]

Thanks for that -given that a Soundcraft Ui12 is less than £20 more would that be a better bet?

I don't mind second hand but unless it's dirt cheap you need to try before you buy and that is probably more trouble than the saving is worth.

[almeriastrings]

Thanks for that -given that a Soundcraft Ui12 is less than £20 more would that be a better bet?
.

Yes. No question - though you will also need a tablet (iPad or Android) to control it and it is much more sophisticated than any of the analog mixers mentioned - be prepared to spend a bit of time learning how to set it up and use it. You get 8 XLR mic preamps, some with a 1/4" jack input too, so it should meet your needs in that respect. Very versatile little mixer. The control software (though very full featured) is clear and intuitive. It also has built-in recording (stereo, two track) capability to a USB stick (using latest firmware). Very useful.

[derbex]

Great, thanks, I have a tablet already so part way there and I don't mind sitting down with a manual.

[almeriastrings]

There is also a trial version of the control interface you can try online, plus a whole range of very good instruction videos. Just go to www.soundcraft.com and follow links to Ui12 info.

[mandotim1955]

I'll add a recommendation for the Soundcraft Ui12. I bought one for my wife to use with her own PA. She only knows basic stuff about sound reinforcement, but she was up and running after a 10 minute chat and demo. Great bit of kit. You can now record your performance as well, in stereo onto a USB stick.

[Astro]

I recorded our whole gig last time. Man I hope some how we sound better live.

Great learning tool.