Sobell Bouzouki-Worth it??

[timcasey55]

Hi all

Looking for advice- I own a Joe foley , Peter Abnett and Heiner Dreizhenter bouzouki and am considering commissioning a carved top. How instinct would direct me to Me Sobell- but he's over €6000 for a bouzouki- there are other builders which look great / namely Terry Docherty, Taran guitars (Rory dowling) and Kai Tonjes all falling into the €4000 aprox region for a carved top.

Are the Sobells really going to sound that different? If your going to pay big money should I just make the step up and get a SObell or am I overpaying when I'm
Sure the mentioned luthiers are great too?!

[Rob Zamites]

This is just my opinion, and I have never played instruments from any of the above, but I'd venture that for that amount of money, you could get a carved top from any number of luthiers that would sound just as fantastic. The music is more a function of the player than the instrument.

Not CBOM contetn, but check out this US blues player tearing it up on a $170 'e-cheapo' guitar: http://acousticguitar.com/acoustic-g...nts-eric-bibb/

Again, just my opinion, and if I had the money for a Sobell, I wouldn't buy a Sobell.

[Steve L]

If I rubbed a magic lamp and the Genie said he was running low on wishes, but I could have any bouzouki I wanted, I'd ask for a Sobell.

[Ray(T)]

Stefan's instruments are well respected and the Sobel name is well known and respected. Unless you're the type to buy an instrument with a view to selling it a couple of years down the line, and assuming you can afford one, the price you pay for it now will pale into insignificance ten years or so down the line. Personally, I've never regretted buying an expensive instrument and never sold one for less than I've paid for it; although I don't recall selling many of them!

[Lord of the Badgers]

Tim. I think you already know the answer...
I thought my buchanan was a great zouk, until I got the Forster.
Quality is quality. Lots of us can only dream of buying a Sobell... that said, he's got a fiendishly long waiting list.

Can I add Paul Shippey to your list. I'm about to pm you a link...

[Andy Marshall]

I have been friends with Stefan Sobell for 27 years, I took a number of the photos on his website, and, according to Stefan, up until last year, I owned more Sobell instruments than anyone else. I had 23, including guitars, bouzoukis, citterns, octave mandolins, his only ever tenor guitar, a few mandolins, a mandola, a banjola, etc... I now own two of his guitars and one 12-string cittern. I may well buy a mandolin or mandola, but I am unlikely to buy another cittern-family instrument of his.

What brought about the change? Two things: needing a down-payment for a house, and getting a few of Nigel Forster's instruments. Some people consider Nigel to simply be carrying on Stefan's legacy, but that is far from the case. Yes, Nigel was Stefan's assistant for many, many years, but Nigel does his own thing these days. His guitar-bodied octave mandolin that I own has a Howe-Orme-style cylinder top, and has sustain and harmonic complexity beyond anything I had ever experienced before. That caused me to sell about 8 Sobells, as they couldn't deliver the same level of compression, sustain and three-dimensional overtones. Then, last year, I traded into a teardrop-body 10-string cittern that Nigel built a few years ago. It has a carved top, and, at first glance, appears quite Sobell-influenced, but it did not take 10 minutes of playing to realize that it was a different beast entirely. The Sobells have a stunning "snap" to the attack of each note, and do sustain very well, but this Forster takes both aspects to another level. It has all of the "pop" at the moment of picking that my best Sobell does, but, in the sustain of the note, it takes on a harmonic complexity that I have never heard from any Sobell cittern-family instrument. A few months after getting this second Forster, I sold the rest of my Sobell cittern-family instruments, simply because they weren't getting played at all any more. The 12-string very-large-bodied Sobell cittern remains, as it is something unique unto itself. Stefan did build one other, and a friend of mine bought it after hearing mine. Side by side, there was no comparison. Mine (the second one he built) was far and away the better of the two. Who knows? Perhaps I will have Nigel build me one, as seen through his looking glass, and, just perhaps, my Sobell will be sold then, but I cannot say for sure until we get to that point. For my ears, my taste, my hands, my eyes, and for what it draws out of me, musically, I am now a huge fan of Nigel Forster's instruments.

I will, likely, order another Sobell mandolin and mandola, and they will be made with Sitka tops, instead of his old standard of German Spruce. I had the opportunity a few years ago to compare two brand-new Sobell mandolas (at Stefan's workshop), one with German Spruce and one with Sitka. I much preferred the harmonic complexity of the Sitka.

As for expensive, beautifully-built instruments as compared to old junk-yard dogs, there is something to be said for both. To me, the right instrument is the one which whispers my name from across the room, and seduces me into playing for hours on end, without even noticing the passing of time. With the right instrument, even hours of practicing scales seem to pass in the blink of an eye, and are remembered fondly.

I do have a few "crappy old guitars" (with good, professional setups) that get played a great deal, but that does not, in any way, detract from the art and beauty of a remarkable newer instrument from a true master like Stefan Sobell, Nigel Forster, Phil Davidson, Brian Dean, Lawrence Smart, Dake Traphagen, Allan Beardsell, Michihiro Matsuda, Stelios Petrakis and quite a few others.

[Lord of the Badgers]

Andy, I really appreciate your words. Not only for Nigel's work (he's currently nagging me to return my gzouk for its first checks, so I need to sort that ASAP, and I know he's read this thread ha ha), but also for name checking my very good friend Phil Davidson. I'm going to Phil's 65th soon.. and will be surrounded by some people who I'm sure I'll hide away from and feel rather humble in the presence of. He's very highly thought of after all, but a bit, to my mind, not mentioned as much as the american makes (be nice, it's just an observation folks, not a critique!).
He was telling me his carved mandocello went to a recent bluegrass meet, and was considered nicer than Tim O'B's Nugget OM...

But yeah, though we'll now have to grease Nigel's ears to get him out the door, I too think he's just too bloody good at what he does... I like that he challenges tradition with what he does - and I am horribly addicted to my zouk (hence the nagging from N!)

[JeffD]

If I rubbed a magic lamp and the Genie said he was running low on wishes, but I could have any bouzouki I wanted, I'd ask for a Sobell.

Bingo.

I had an 80s Sobell bouzouki, and I loved the sound. I sold it to a friend (and café member) who drove across the country to get it.

Not disparaging the other luthiers, I haven't done an A/B comparison, but when I think of the bouzouki sound, I think of the Sobell sound.

Its like a lot of things, at the higher prices it comes down to taste, to some extent anyway. But I would be willing to spend the increment more and get a Sobell, and I would not, in the whole rest of my life, regret it.

[red7flag]

I played a used Sobell mandolin at the Elderly Booth at IBMA a number of years ago. I fell in love. Had I not been totally strapped for cash (I was there to consign some instruments), I would have found a way to buy that sucker. Beautiful tone and extremely easy to play. One I let slip between my fingers.

[JeffD]

I think you will find, for the rest of your life, folks will compliment you on that instrument, and nobody, at all, ever, will say you should have chosen something less expensive. Ever.

[red7flag]

Truthfully, I was in love. Would not have care what others thought. Precious, my Precious...

[nkforster]

Hi all

Looking for advice- I own a Joe foley , Peter Abnett and Heiner Dreizhenter bouzouki and am considering commissioning a carved top. How instinct would direct me to Me Sobell- but he's over €6000 for a bouzouki- there are other builders which look great / namely Terry Docherty, Taran guitars (Rory dowling) and Kai Tonjes all falling into the €4000 aprox region for a carved top.

Are the Sobells really going to sound that different? If your going to pay big money should I just make the step up and get a SObell or am I overpaying when I'm
Sure the mentioned luthiers are great too?!

I've been thinking about this thread over the last week and despite the vested interest I have, if you're wanting a Sobell, my advice is get one.

For three reasons -

First, no matter what else you got, you'd be wondering if you should have got a Sobell.

Secondly, Stefan is 72 or 73 now, and whilst I imagine he's in decent health, (72 year olds are not as old as they used to be when I was a bairn) at some point in the future he may well decide to make less instruments. And it's possible that given the choice between making a €6000 cittern or a €10,000 guitar, he may well make the guitar given they are almost the same amount of work.

Thirdly - look at Stradivarius - he worked 'till his 90's yet it's the work he did in his 70's that is held in the highest regard. It could be that Stefan is doing the best work he's ever done or will do, right now.

Get one whilst you can, and if it's not what you hoped for, at least you found out. On the other hand, it might be the instrument that ends your search.

If you can't justify spending that sort of money, there are lots of us who can make a decent carved top. There is no shortage of choice these days.

Nigel
http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/inst...rish-bouzouki/

[allenhopkins]

...(72 year olds are not as old as they used to be when I was a bairn)...

Amen (speaking as one myself).

[Colin Lindsay]

I think you will find, for the rest of your life, folks will compliment you on that instrument, and nobody, at all, ever, will say you should have chosen something less expensive. Ever.

I bought one in 2013 from a local man, totally out of the blue - like finding a Stradivarius in your local junk shop. The price was amazingly low for a mint mid-1990s OM and the seller did tell me he knew the current prices they were fetching but was happy to let it go for what he considered an accurate price. It's mint and unmarked in the original case and sounds... just amazing. I batter away on my Fyldes but this one demands reverence. It's not just slavish respect for the brand, it's the feel, the tone and the depth that just makes me go 'wow' everytime I play it. I love it, in fact so much that I'd sell it before any other instrument I own, as I don't feel I really deserve it. Does that make sense?

[Dagger Gordon]

and sounds... just amazing. I batter away on my Fyldes but this one demands reverence. It's not just slavish respect for the brand, it's the feel, the tone and the depth that just makes me go 'wow' everytime I play it. I love it, in fact so much that I'd sell it before any other instrument I own, as I don't feel I really deserve it. Does that make sense?

I know EXACTLY what you mean. You are quite right - the 'feel, the tone and the depth that makes me go 'wow' everytime I play it'.

I also note that you obviously think the Fyldes just don't compare.

And if i were you, I wouldn't sell it. Consider yourself a lucky man and enjoy it. You would undoubtedly regret getting rid of it.

[Shelagh Moore]

I've never played a Sobell bouzouki but I have played one of his longer-scale citterns and it was a very fine instrument indeed. I think Nigel Forster gave some very good advice above.

[Gerry Cassidy]

I've owned a couple of Sobell's instruments. A 20" scaled OM and a 24" (IIRC) Zouk. Both lived up to their name in my book. If I had the need for another one I would spend the money required without much thought.

Something I was wondering though; I believe he does an induced arch on the tops of his Zouk Family instruments doesn't he? Would one consider an induced arch the same as a carved top?

[David Hansen]

I have had the privilege of owning four Sobell's, two mandolins and two octave mandolins and each one was fantastic in fit, finish and playability with the signature Sobell tone in spades. I was fortunate in being able to accquire all of mine for reasonable prices in the "used" market. You may have to wait for a while to find what you want but they do show up here in our classifieds periodically. I would also agree with Andy about considering Nigel Forster's instruments, I have a Forster cittern that has similar qualities to a Sobell but also sings nicely on it's own.

[Colin Lindsay]

I also note that you obviously think the Fyldes just don't compare.

The Fylde is a horse of a different colour - I have two, including a ten string version that I had specially made by Roger. My bouzouki has a lovely 'flat' tone, ideal for fast playing as each note comes out definite and clear, but ends when I go to the next one. The ten string is quite sustainy, notes tend to blur at speed, so it's ideal for slow songs a la Andy Irvine style. I play both non-stop and they're my main instruments for practices or performances these days. The Sobell is almost too good for this kind of thing - I'm terrified of getting it marked or damaged - and I use it mainly for recording. I rate Fyldes very highly, they're the ones I always wanted when I was younger, but the Sobell is a step above.