Gold Tone mandocello -- thoughts?

[dchernack]

The good folks at Gold Tone have released video of a prototype for their newest creation -- a mandocello. It was announced a few months back (see this other thread: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...one-mandocello) but the video was just released today. Street price is going to be $950 or so according to the comments section of the video.

I have some reservations about the instrument. I think that the cutaway and archtop body are a nice place to start. (However, I'm definitely in the camp that would love to see teardrop A-style bodies becoming available instead of all the octaves and 'cellos being slapped onto guitar bodies... which is wholly inconsistent of my excitement for the new Pono and Northfield octaves, so I guess that doesn't mean much.) But as a bluegrass and old time mandolin/mandola/mandocello player, I don't see very many people getting much use out of the humbucking pickup coming standard. If taking away the pickup could reduce the street price I think that would be something to consider.

Otherwise, this looks like a great budget instrument. Thoughts?

Here is the video: https://www.facebook.com/goldtoneinc...56812305535134

[UlsterMando]

Interesting, love the bound f- holes.

[Tobin]

I can't view the Facebook page, but I'm also in the camp that can't get excited about guitar-body mandocellos. Anybody can repurpose a guitar design for8 strings. I want it to look like a mandolin family instrument. I'd think it would be cheaper in a teardrop shape too.

[dchernack]

Oops! Here's a direct YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxP953U-fWU

[fentonjames]

why can't a company make a video that shows the instrument by itself, with out the looper and chorus effects? i wanted to hear IT, not the gadgets.

[Mandobart]

why can't a company make a video that shows the instrument by itself, with out the looper and chorus effects? i wanted to hear IT, not the gadgets.

I agree. Also a 'cello IS all about the bass. Barely heard the C course during that demo.

[dchernack]

I agree. Also a 'cello IS all about the bass. Barely heard the C course during that demo.

Agree agree and agree some more. Just strum some chords and play one tune. I feel like I still don't know what the instrument really sounds like.

[Marty Jacobson]

Wow, they managed to make it sound just like an electric guitar. :-\

[Beanzy]

Yup If I want a cello guitar I'd probably buy a cello guitar. It's the same with the mandoloncellos that come with excess bulk in the form of a scroll, can't be doing with that, the thing is heavy enough already. Sticky out points are kind of fun and handy to allow opposing curves to meet, but 1/2kg of lump does nothing for me.

I'd rather see builders following the benefits of violoncello designs with the extreme deep centre arch & curves and deeper body rather than the out of control sustain and wash of notes I hear in the guitar bodied instruments. I think they flip the relative importance of resonance and sustain when they go for guitar shapes. I want the resonance for those low notes to sound and they need to cut back on the sustain to get more control. Although the mandoloncello can perform a bass role, it needs to perform as a melody instrument too so the ones I've heard that work the best are tight and plucky sounding with the sustain controlled. Some of the bowl backed ones do the job really well.

[Martin Ohrt]

I like the idea of bringing out another budget cello, and it looks good to me - but i don't really like guitar-bodied celli, neither.
Also, my first thought was: Why the pickup? I can hardly imagine using a cello in a jazz-guitar environment...
And yes, it would be nice to hear the C-course ring...

[Jim Garber]

I understand the concern or preference against guitar-bodied mandocelli, however if we are talking about a production instrument then it makes a lot of sense for a manufacturer to take a production guitar body and neck(?) and adapt it for cost concerns. Otherwise you can certainly spent a lot more money and get a custom-made instrument. The market for mandocelli is just not that large.

I am also not sure why the pickup but I am guessing that they just did it for the prototype. If this will sell for around $950 or so it already looks like it competes very nicely with the Eastman which is around $2000 and AFAIK still has problems with playability in terms of the course spacing. From the video, this GoldTone already looks more playable.

Here's the embedded video for convenience:

[goldtone]

Hey everybody, thanks for all of the feedback we've been getting so far.

At this point, we're still testing out prototypes, however, it will most likely have a pickup. Based on our mandolin sales (including the Bouzouki/Mandola/Octave Mandolin), we tend to do a lot of pickup installations. By having it come standard, we're actually meeting in the middle with our price. We're aiming to keep this model affordable for those who want an acoustic and/or an amplified version.

The same is true for the body. It's actually much more expensive to produce a teardrop A-Style, and we are aiming to keep the instrument affordable.

As for this video, a looper was the only effect used. Based on the response we are getting, we may plan on demonstrating different styles of music that better show off its acoustic sound in other videos.

We love the feedback we are getting, so if you have any other thoughts, or concerns, let us know.

[goldtone]

So, Wayne (the owner) has been reading everyone's comments and he suggests that we could add scrolls to the headstock (similar to our regular mandolins), to have it look more similar to a mandolin. How do you all feel about this change? Would it help?

[tkdboyd]

Imagine that...and I thought I would be happy with just a tenor guitar and an octave mandolin. I was wrong.

[Beanzy]

It needs to be played with the neck much more upright as you have to reach in fifths, not in fourths like a guitar. If you think of a slightly less upright position that a cellist or a bazouki player uses you'll have the idea. It could find traction among people who don't already play mandoloncello. But over the right knee is asking for playing induced stress and eventual injury.

As for the headstock a plainer look is better but I would urge you tongive the low strings some room by moving the tuners into a more useful formation. Closer together at the front wider at the fingerboard end. Also moving them away from the nut to give more length between the nut and first pegs will help with tuning stability and nut stress or snagging while tuning.

[NuclearWessell]

I think it looks and sounds great. I wonder how long it takes to get a prototype into production. I am currently chomping at the bit to get a mandocello, and I'm wondering if it would be worth it to wait for this one or buy a conversion from Baxendale.

[Marty Jacobson]

So, Wayne (the owner) has been reading everyone's comments and he suggests that we could add scrolls to the headstock (similar to our regular mandolins), to have it look more similar to a mandolin. How do you all feel about this change? Would it help?

I think the design of the instrument is attractive, adding an f-style mandolin headstock would not be an improvement in my opinon. My comment was about the fact that it was demonstrated by a very good guitarist playing on a fifths-tuned instrument. I'm sure the NST guys are thrilled by this instrument, and the demo you did would work well to get them salivating. But I think you'd communicate better to the folks here by playing something like Bach cello suites... or Gator Strut. :-)

[Don Grieser]

Saw on FB the nut width is 1 11/16". That's a guitar neck. 1 1/2" is way more playable for the way mandolin family players will need to play.... I would never consider one with a nut that wide. It's really no different than the Eastman in unplayability, just less expensive.

[billhay4]

I agree with Marty. It is an attractive design. If I were going to do anything to the headstock, it would be a bit of art deco.
Bill

[Marty Jacobson]

Saw on FB the nut width is 1 11/16". That's a guitar neck. 1 1/2" is way more playable for the way mandolin family players will need to play.... I would never consider one with a nut that wide. It's really no different than the Eastman in unplayability, just less expensive.

Really good point, Don. If you want to have a playable four-course neck (for mandolin family players, anyway) you want a nut width in the range of 1 3/8" (as in Mike Marshall's Monteleone mandocello) or 1 1/2" at the most.

Here's the nut spacing I worked out to retrofit Eastman mandocelli with... so far I've done five or six this way.

[Tobin]

We're aiming to keep this model affordable for those who want an acoustic and/or an amplified version.

The same is true for the body. It's actually much more expensive to produce a teardrop A-Style, and we are aiming to keep the instrument affordable.

If you don't mind my asking, how is it more expensive to produce a simpler body shape? Is it just that production is already set up for guitar bodies and it would require re-tooling? Or is there something inherently more expensive about the teardrop shape versus the guitar shape?

[Don Grieser]

I was just going from memory, but the narrower the nut width the better for me. I don't have an old Gibson cello to measure, but I know they are no bigger than 1 1/2".

Santa Cruz got that right in their guitar body mandocello build.

[Ken_P]

I could very much be in the market for such an instrument, but I have a few concerns. I think some serious though should be given to the nut/string spacing issue as has been discussed extensively. Personally, I would have no use for the electronics and only care about how it sounds acoustically, which the video did not demonstrate at all. The body styling is not a great concern for me, it looks nice enough and if keeping it on the plain side keeps the cost down, I'm happy to make that trade off. I think as a practical matter, the guitar body is a good way to go. Even a traditional A style body becomes very unwieldy in an instrument that size, in my experience.

I am very glad that you're looking for input from the people who might actually want such an instrument, that alone is a good starting point!

[Jim Garber]

So, Wayne (the owner) has been reading everyone's comments and he suggests that we could add scrolls to the headstock (similar to our regular mandolins), to have it look more similar to a mandolin. How do you all feel about this change? Would it help?

Nah, I agree with Marty and others. We are not so much concerned with looks as with functionality and playability. As Eoin noted some played prefer the ovoid shape for to reach the fretboard different from a guitar. However, I personally see no problem with you general design but I do agree the string spacing and the neck width should be adapted. I had some communication with Eastman on their MC and they do not seem much interested in making those small production changes even at their much higher price point.

BTW I did not see any full specs for this yet. It is a solid top or even all solid wood? What kind of bracing pattern does it have?

[foldedpath]

I'll echo some of the other comments here, in saying that the neck width and nut are critical for playability. Narrowed nut slots may help a little, but it really needs a mandocello-sized neck width, not just a standard production guitar neck. That's much more important than the headstock shape, which is fine as is.

Personally, I wouldn't ever consider buying a mandocello with a humbucker and volume knobs like this. Mandocellos are acoustic instruments first and foremost. This just isn't the right 'cello vibe (IMO). If it's more marketable with an installed pickup, then include a decent bridge or internal contact pickup wired to a 1/4" jack at the tailpiece.