Exercises for stretching first to seventh fret (LH)?

[Rtnrlfy]

Hi -

I find that I don't have a tremendous amount of stretch from my index to pinky finger. This is making stretching from a first fret to seventh fret note, for example, very difficult to do in any kind of legato fashion. Do you have any suggestions for how I could increase my dexterity and lateral reach?

Thanks in advance,
Lesley

[Andy Hatfield]

It's very rare that you have to make that particular stretch. The hand opens up most between the first two fingers. Try putting a marble-sized space between the knuckles of those two fingers, and your pinky might reach a bit farther.

-A

[Ky Slim]

That is a tough stretch and I agree with Jackofblack that it is probably rare that you'd have to make it.
Are you playing both notes on the same string? Like the F and B notes on the E string? If so perhaps play the F note on the 8th fret of the A string. If the 2 notes are on any of the other 3 strings (A, D or G) then the 7th fret note would be the next higher open string.

[SincereCorgi]

Wohlfahrt and Dancla violin etudes are very good for relaxing and stretching out the left hand. This is sort of a long-term project, as you gotta patiently wait for your anatomy to start complying.

[foldedpath]

That is a tough stretch and I agree with Jackofblack that it is probably rare that you'd have to make it.

I disagree; it depends on the genre.

That stretch is not rare at all if you're playing "fiddle tunes," especially Irish/Scottish traditional tunes. These tunes are normally played in first position (like a fiddler), and there are many tunes that have a stretch to the B note on the E string, 7th fret, usually in the second part of the tune. It's essential to develop one's pinky so that high B note sounds as strong and clean as every other note you play.

There may be some exercises designed to help with this, but I find it more fun to just learn and practice tunes that use that stretch. One fairly easy one is the "Silver Spear" reel, which has a repeated stretch to that B note in the second part of the tune in most settings. For a more advanced tune, I like practicing the "Sweeney's Buttermilk" reel which has some tricky stretches to the B in the second part.

I don't think there are any shortcuts here, whether you're using an exercise or playing tunes. Just hours, months, and years of practice. I took me a few years to get a pinky stretch I was happy with for playing those fiddle tunes, and I still have to make sure I don't get lazy and let that B note get weak.

Of course it's all easier if you're not playing fiddle tunes or other styles that require playing out of first position. Anywhere further up the neck in a closed position is much easier.

[Rtnrlfy]

The genre in question is classical and, while theoretically I _could_ play the note on the open string, that would impact the effect called for in the score (slurs, for example, from high E to D a step down). I'll check out the etudes referenced and also just keep plugging away at it. Thanks!

[T.D.Nydn]

You could always get a shorter scale classical mandolin.....

[foldedpath]

The genre in question is classical and, while theoretically I _could_ play the note on the open string, that would impact the effect called for in the score (slurs, for example, from high E to D a step down). I'll check out the etudes referenced and also just keep plugging away at it. Thanks!

Yep, Classical is different. I don't know how it translates to mandolin, but I've heard that music for classical violin often avoids open strings, so there isn't a timbre difference. That's going to put your stretches in different areas.

[Beanzy]

Bring your elbow well around so the reach is with fingers with as much slack as possible before the reach.
To get a feel for where you should end up place the little finger first, bring the elbow around/ across under the mandolin and reach back to place the index finger. As jackofblack says the reach is easier with the first two fingers. So rather than thinking of it as a stretch, think of bringing the hand around and forward (by moving the elbow to reach around) while opening the index finger to fret the first fret. So it's then a relaxed whole hand movement rather than trying to stretch the little finger.

[JeffD]

My first thought is always to find somewhere on the mandolin where the same notes can be played without the stretch. So for example if the tune is looking for first fret to seventh on the same string, Eb to A on the D string say, I might go eighth fret one string down (Eb on the G string) to the seventh fret A on the D string. Something like that.

Failing that, I usually find that a stretch is easier if I start it from the high side. So I would pinky the seventh fret and then stretch down to the first fret. Just because the notes are to be played in a certain order doesn't mean that the stretch needs to start in the same order.

There is usually a way that does not require super human stretches or surgical manipulation of the interdactyl webbing. Often that way is to take the whole phrase up the neck somewhere.

[Nathaniel Winthrop]

I think I found this exercise on the forum somewhere, don't recall where. But I use this every time I pick up my mandolin and it's been very helpful in building precision and dexterity in my pinky.

[Simon DS]

Anyone ever tried finger lengtheners?

[Tom Wright]

Accuracy is probably the issue--it always feels harder when you land a little off-target. But it could be your hand is not angled for best reach. It should not be that your palm is facing you, as if grasping the neck firmly. Your palm should instead face somewhat toward the bridge, and the reach is achieved by curling your index finger tightly, and by extending pinky straight out.

[Jess L.]

... stretching from a first fret to seventh fret note ... Do you have any suggestions for how I could increase my dexterity and lateral reach?

For long reaches, I put my thumb on the back of neck and kind of arch the hand more. Quick pic of me doing a 1st-to-7th fret stretch on mandolin:



That technique works for me, but I have no idea if it's considered 'proper' mandolin technique.

I've heard that classical violinists do a sorta-similar hand-arch thing, presumably for the same reasons: it makes stuff easier to play.

I don't play flat-handed anymore, that is, with the palm of my hand resting flat on the back of the neck, makes it way too hard to play anything. Given the choice, I always opt for whatever technique is easier, and having the hand arched is definitely easier (for me, anyway).

Although it takes a little while to get used to the arched idea, especially if you started out as I did... when I first started playing fretted instruments (back in the neolithic era lol) I played with palm of hand firmly planted on the back of the neck... that's the way I learned from my dad and I assumed it was acceptable... it was ok for beginning clawhammer banjo because the style I chose to play was extremely non-complicated (I liked the sound of that better, at the time), every tune/song had a few notes at the 5th fret but otherwise mostly easy 2nd fret stuff etc. But, playing flat-handed like that, became a huge impediment when I picked up other instruments and tried to play other types of music. It was one of the bad habits I have to make an effort to train myself out of.

Anyway, I'm probably preachin' to the choir here, the OP is playing classical and probably already has good hand technique etc. But I thought I'd mention it just in case it might help. The usual "your mileage may vary" etc.

Edited to add:
The technique I show in the above picture is also extremely useful for longer-scale instruments such as GDAE tenor guitar, octave mando etc, makes for much easier reaches to the fifth fret with the pinky, on the long-scale instruments. That way the hand stays in one place without having to scoot around all the time. You can see how I apply that technique to GDAEB guitar in this video's lower part (the guitar part):


(or direct link)
Note: with the capo as shown, the guitar's scale length is about 19 inches (or metric approx 48.3 cm if I did the conversion right).

So anyway, again I don't know if that's 'good' technique or not, but it sure makes it easier for me to play stuff. I have arthritis in my fingers so it's all the more important for me to play in the easiest way possible and still get the notes I want.

[Rosemary Philips]

I think I found this exercise on the forum somewhere, don't recall where. But I use this every time I pick up my mandolin and it's been very helpful in building precision and dexterity in my pinky.

I believe that's a Pete Martin creation.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I have fairly large hands & fortunately for me,stretching from the 1st to 7th fret isn't too difficult - however,i do emply the same method used by JL227z,which helps to make it as easy as it could be - why make it harder ?. I came to mandolin mainly from banjo with it's wider fret spacing which also helped,but the only way to achieve something is to practice doing it - whichever way you choose to position your hand. For me,i'd say it was the hand position used by most Classical violinists & it's well worth looking up a few YouTube clips either of the violinists playing,or viloin technique,
Ivan

[Beanzy]

I forgot to mention making sure the thumb is relaxed and not flattened against the neck, mine tends to rest best 3/4 side on to the thumbnail.

When starting out I also used to do an exercise where I would put fingers 12&3 on frets 1,3&5 then once the thumb was relaxed and I'd swung the elbow back and forward a while to get it freed up, I would pop the 4th finger around between frets 6&7 on each course, then move fingers 1,2&3 up to the next course and repeat on each course again to get the different angles. In between I would remove the hand, raise and drop the shoulders and wiggle my fingers to relax them. then I'd plant fingers 12&3 again, do the elbow moves to relax it and 'reset' my thinking, then go again with popping the 4th finger around frets 6&7 on each course.
Even when reaching you'll need to be able to stay relaxed and keep a curve in your finger so you can reach over the other courses without muting them, that's why using the reach from your 1st & 2nd fingers is important.

[JeffD]

How I might do the one-seven fret stretch, if I didn't feel like stretching:

[gtani7]

Hi -

I find that I don't have a tremendous amount of stretch from my index to pinky finger. This is making stretching from a first fret to seventh fret note, for example, very difficult to do in any kind of legato fashion. Do you have any suggestions for how I could increase my dexterity and lateral reach?

Thanks in advance,
Lesley

is it about that nasty G-minor (3-1-5-7 on E-A-D-G) or G7? If so, work the chord closer to the bridge and move up to the nut. That fingerboard is a logarithmic stretching machine. Or invert it.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...4-Bluegrass-G7

[Simon DS]

Check out http://jazzmando.com/print/DorianMinorFFcP.pdf Enjoy!
and some of the warm ups: http://jazzmando.com/exercises_and_technique.shtml

[Phil Vinyard]

Check out http://jazzmando.com/print/DorianMinorFFcP.pdf Enjoy!
and some of the warm ups: http://jazzmando.com/exercises_and_technique.shtml

I was about to throw Ted's exercises in here but you beat me to it. The Super FFcP exercise set is my go-to. When I carve out the time and run through them before I get down to practicing tunes it always helps a lot. And you can start them several frets up where things are closer together and then move down to lower notes to work in a little stretch. Direct link here: http://jazzmando.com/SuperFFcP.pdf

[Jim Garber]

There may be some exercises designed to help with this, but I find it more fun to just learn and practice tunes that use that stretch. One fairly easy one is the "Silver Spear" reel, which has a repeated stretch to that B note in the second part of the tune in most settings. For a more advanced tune, I like practicing the "Sweeney's Buttermilk" reel which has some tricky stretches to the B in the second part.

I know it is still a stretch, however the OP asked about the stretch from the first fret to the seventh. The tunes you mention have stretches from the second fret to the fifth and then to the seventh. Perhaps a tune in Dminor or Aminor might work for that purpose?

The genre in question is classical and, while theoretically I _could_ play the note on the open string, that would impact the effect called for in the score (slurs, for example, from high E to D a step down). I'll check out the etudes referenced and also just keep plugging away at it. Thanks!

Maybe you can post the passage you are working on that has that stretch?

BTW I have come across some classical passages in which the suggested fingering is the first position reaching up to the C on the E string with the pinky (as opposed to changing to 2nd position).

Of course, you can also choose different fingerings that allow you to play these passages without pulling a muscle in your hand. Remember that the fingering suggested esp in older pieces were usually only suggested and were often written in by later editors and rarely by the composer. That is why I often prefer urtext versions without fingerings indicated esp for violin pieces.

[Jim Garber]

Sorry! Duplicate post.

[s1m0n]

Get a capo and practice a little farther up the neck where the frets are closer together. When you can do it cleanly, drop down a fret or two.

Also, station your hand in a position where your little finger can easily make the seventh fret reach, and then do the stretching with your first two fingers back to the first 3 frets, not with your little finger. As someone pointed out, they're way more flexible. Most tunes use these fingers a lot more often, so they'll be getting a work out every time you play, instead of only when that rare and scary high B comes along and makes you tense up.

[foldedpath]

I know it is still a stretch, however the OP asked about the stretch from the first fret to the seventh. The tunes you mention have stretches from the second fret to the fifth and then to the seventh. Perhaps a tune in Dminor or Aminor might work for that purpose?

Sorry, I missed that part. However, it's still basically the same amount of stretch required, because your hand doesn't move out of first position to reach that B note.