Buzz at G & D 7'th fret

[Rhk]

Bought a handmade f style made by Harry Grimes in December. The setup looks to be pretty good However I have a buzz just in the g & D strings 7 th fret. Everything else is smooth. I did raise the bridge slightly on the bass side and that helped for a week but it is now back to where it was.
The instrument was built in Oregon with 70% humidity. It is now residing in a humidity of 25 to 30 %. I have recently added another humidifier to the case to bring it up to 35% but when I play it out of the case the humidity is 25%

Any suggestions as to how I can solve this would be appreciated!

[pops1]

I would humidify the house, it's going to lower the action as it dries more. If you have something to accurately measure the string height at the 12th fret then you can watch what it is doing. I would also check the truss rod adjustment.

[multidon]

Sure does sound exactly like not enough relief in the neck. That is precisely where it would show up. I would start with loosening the truss rod.

[Rhk]

Truss rod, I thought I might have to deal with that. Is that something I layman can do or should I go to a luthier. Since I am 200 miles from anywhere I hope I can do it myself!

[multidon]

You have to figure out what kind of rod you have, two way or one way. One way is more traditional. Make sure you have the correct wrench to adjust the rod nut. One may have been included, but you might have to ask the maker. Take off the truss rod cover. You will need the correct type of tiny screwdriver (a magnetized one helps prevent lost screws and is just easier). Once off you will see the nut in the pocket. Orient the instrument so you are looking at it from the top of the headstock. Use the wrench to turn the nut to the left (counterclockwise). You should feel it loosen (it becomes easier, not harder, to turn). If you have a traditional one way rod there will be a point where the nut just turns freely. You don't want that, it will rattle. When you reach that point go to the right again until you feel the nut just begin to snug. That's a good starting point. If you should feel the nut tightening when you go to the left then you probably have a two way rod. A two way rod is designed to correct back bow as well as up bow, and tightens both left and right. But there is a middle neutral position on those rods where the nut will feel loose. If it feels like it's getting tighter just reverse direction until it loosens again to the neutral position. Once you are there just do like you would with the one way rod, go to the right until just barely snug. Making a reference mark on your nut at this point makes future adjustments easier. Then adjust. Your string tension naturally pulls up on your neck creating slight up bow. That is relief. But you don't want that pulling out of control so the truss rod counteracts that in the other direction. What you want is a tiny amount of relief. Some do this with a precision straight edge, but most people don't have one, so instead use your strings as a straight edge. Capo first fret and hold down your g string at 12th fret. Now use your other hand to measure relief. A cheap set of feeler gauges from your auto supply store is real handy for this. Measure at the 7th fret. How much do you want? Just enough to make the buzz go away, no more. You want as close to straight as possible, but dead straight just isn't always possible without buzzing. How much turning should it take to get you where you want? Adjust in small steps. Especially tightening. Maybe 1/8th turn at a time. After adjusting let the instrument rest a while then measure. You should never have to go past 1/2 turn past just snug. For me, 1/4 turn past snug is usually enough. Remember that small adjustments make a big difference. When you are through replace the truss rod cover, and you will probably have to readjust your bridge action too. Or perhaps not. Good luck.

There are LOTS of Web sites with more detailed directions and diagrams. You may want to study some of the diagrams first.

[miami]

First check for a high spot on fret 7. It may have become unseated under D and G and simply need a quick whack, or it may need to be filed a bit and recrowned. Get a straightedge long enough to to sit only across frets 6, 7, and 8. If there is a high spot under D and G, the straightedge will rock on it. Check the whole length of fret 7 to see if the rocking stops under E and A. It might get tricky finding a true straightedge this short. People have used credit cards to check guitar frets.

[fentonjames]

sounds like a high fret to me. likely the 8th or 9th.

[Dale Ludewig]

Why don't you call the builder?

[pops1]

If you find something to rock on three frets, do 6,7,8 7,8,9, 8,9,10. See if there is a high fret. Not sure if you checked your relief, wondering about that.

[Rhk]

Thanks for the the responses. I did call the builder. He suggested it may be a high 8'th fret. So I held down the 7'th fret and tried to slide a piece of paper under the 8'th. It would not slide under as it would when I held down the 6th and slid the paper under the 7'th. So I may have to do a very careful filing or sanding. He also suggested a slight truss rod adjustment to compensate for the humidity as Don suggested.

Does anybody know Harry Grimes? Except for this problem I love the mandolin he has built for me. But nobody seems to have heard of him. Of course this is the first mandolin I ever played so what do I know. My wife knew of him and had him build it for me as a Christmas gift. She thought I would hang it on the wall with my guitar. HA Maybe I'll buy her some earplugs for her birthday.

Thanks Richard

[multidon]

Richard, he is not in our builder database, which has almost 800 entries, and a Google search reveals many people named Harry Grimes but no mention of mandolin building. There is a chimney sweep, an orthopedic surgeon, and a policeman all named Harry Grimes but no mandolin builder. If he is a professional luthier he is keeping himself well hidden. Perhaps he is a hobby builder who depends on word of mouth only?

As an amusing side note, my search turned up lots of pictures of Rick Grimes. Of "The Walking Dead" fame. I'm guessing he doesn't have much time for making mandolins, what with shooting zombies in the head and whatnot.

[Rhk]

Thanks for looking Don. I think he just makes a few a year. Mine is 57. I think his pleasure is working in his workshop. Does not want to promote himself.

[fentonjames]

before you file or sand the fret, give it a few whacks with a frethammer. seasons are changing and the fret has likely just popped out a little. don't take material off unless you have to. try hammering it in first, with a frethammer.

[colorado_al]

Where is the builder located? If you've only had it for 3 months, I would imagine that he would fix whatever problem you are having at no cost. Bring the mandolin to him and ask him to fix it.

[Rhk]

Thanks to everyone for your help and advice.

I would take it back to the luthier but he is ill and to far away for a quick return so

1 Wait for a fret file and hammer on the way
2 measure with a strait edge the frets especially around 7,8,9 frets
3 gently but firmly hammer high fret
4 file if necessary
5 adjust truss rod, as I live in a very dry climate I would move the nut to the left perhaps at the most 1/4 turn then come back to the right to tighten a fraction.
6. set up according to rob Meldrum's e-book on setting up a mandolin, Thanks Rob.
7 PLAY , or take in to repair shop. If anybody has any other suggestions please let me know.
I will post how it turns out.

[Brian Evans]

If you tap the fret, use a piece of hardwood to cushion the blow. If it does cure the buzz, get some ultra thin crazy glue and put a drop or two along the base of the fret, it will wick in and keep the fret tight. It's not the end of the world to learn how to do a fret dress. A humidity shift as you've described will throw an instrument out of whack, so a light fret dress is probably just the ticket. It's a bit more involved than just hitting the high fret with a file, though, although that is the essence of it.

Brian

[Rhk]

Thanks Brian

[ProfChris]

But do all the measuring and testing before you start tapping down or filing frets! You need to diagnose the problem first. The two main candidates which have emerged are high fret and truss rod adjustment, and you now know how to go about either. They fix different issues, so work out which one will produce the fix you need and then go for it.

In your list, point 2 (measuring) should be the first thing you do. If you haven't got a high fret, then tapping and filing will just give you a low one!

[Rhk]

Thanks,

1: is just waiting for for a good strait edge coming from stewmac along with a few other things. I will defiantly measure FIRST. If I can't diagnois the problem it goes right to the shop.

[multidon]

Seems to me that by the time you pay for a straight edge, fret hammer, and fret file at Stew Mac, you could have just paid a luthier to solve the problem. Of course if you have a number of instruments to care fore and keep set up it makes more sense to have those items on hand.