a question for the Andy Irvine aficionados

[Mike Anderson]

I'm wondering if anyone knows which, if any, Planxty recordings might have had waldzither or Portuguese guitarra? You certainly see plenty of video and a few photos of Andy playing those instruments, but I have no idea if he used them on their records.

And for the heck of it, here are 2 videos of Andy playing his Andy Manson bouzouki:

[s1m0n]

Thank you. Was that Paul Brady in the audience behind those spectacles?

[kmmando]

Well done Mike for putting those up, a seminal sound, absolutely groundbreaking to many of my generation. Four genius musicians, and Liam's piping is just sublime, amazing groove and swing, and the tempo is just nailed, spot on. Couldn't be better! Thanks!

Kevin

[Mike Anderson]

Hi all, glad you enjoyed the videos! The Manson was a gift to Andy from Diane Hamilton (Guggenheim) in 1977, I remember that from the china2galway site.

So no thoughts on the use of those instruments in Planxty albums? Thought it was worth a shot anyway, wonder if it's worth bugging Andy about.

[Dagger Gordon]

Are you sure these videos are from 1980? I would have thought Donal was long gone by then - or wait a minute, did they reform around then?

[Mike Anderson]

Are you sure these videos are from 1980? I would have thought Donal was long gone by then - or wait a minute, did they reform around then?

Not at all sure, and you can find others obviously from the same concert that are labelled as being 1979. 1979 was the year of "After The Break," and Donal produced it and played on it.

s1m0n, as for the bespectacled audience member there is a resemblance for sure, but looks a bit young?...

[Bertram Henze]

Talking about the more exotic instruments Andy played (and he tried everything he could get his hands on, it seems), the waldzither is seen here (and his love for sudden time changes, I guess they wouldn't let him play for dancers), and what is that thing he is pictured with on the sleeve back of "Well Below the Valley" (at least indicating he played it on that record)?

[Jacob]

That headstock design looks like a Lisbon style Portuguese guitarra.

[Mike Anderson]

That headstock design looks like a Lisbon style Portuguese guitarra.

Yes indeed, and well spotted Bertram! I think what I really need to do is sit down with headphones and go through all my Planxty to see if I can find a sound that compares to the waldzither in that excellent version of "Plains of Kildare."

Terrible burden I know, but I'll struggle through somehow.

[garryireland]

Ive checked cd credits and it seems to mention mandolin or mandola. Maybe the zither and guitarra were used for touring so as not to the damage his gibson mandola

[Mike Anderson]

Ive checked cd credits and it seems to mention mandolin or mandola. Maybe the zither and guitarra were used for touring so as not to the damage his gibson mandola

That makes sense - he might have gotten them for a few pounds each back then.

[s1m0n]

s1m0n, as for the bespectacled audience member there is a resemblance for sure, but looks a bit young?...

I dunno. He'd have been 32 or 33 in 1980, but below is what he looked like in 1977..



It looks a lot like the face at 3:08 of the first video.

[Francis J]

That's not Paul Brady, cant help with the OP's question, although I've seen Andy play countless times, with several variations of mandolin style instruments, I've always believed that for the earlier Planxty recordings, he used a Gibson A1 on the mandolin bits. But as Bertram says, he's played a huge range of instruments over the years. You could try e-mailing himself, http://www.andyirvine.com/contact/ Be patient..............

[Mike Anderson]

That's not Paul Brady, cant help with the OP's question, although I've seen Andy play countless times, with several variations of mandolin style instruments, I've always believed that for the earlier Planxty recordings, he used a Gibson A1 on the mandolin bits. But as Bertram says, he's played a huge range of instruments over the years. You could try e-mailing himself, http://www.andyirvine.com/contact/ Be patient..............

If this is the fellow we're talking about I have to agree. It might just be a function of my own age, but he looks like a teenager to me.



I also agree re: the Gibson. When I first saw pics of Planxty I'd thought he played a flat top mandolin, but I know after finding loads of online videos that this was very wrong; can't even remember how I got that initial impression.

I've written Andy once, just a "thanks for all the great music" sort of thing, and he wrote back a short note to thank me. I don't mind the question remaining a mystery, but might send one more email. I tend to wonder if a man with such a long and varied career sort of rolls his eyes every time someone brings up the distant past.

[Francis J]

Mike Anderson "I tend to wonder if a man with such a long and varied career sort of rolls his eyes every time someone brings up the distant past."
I've seen a video where Andy says he'd love to re-record all the Planxty albums again, but then thinks, maybe it wouldn't be the same. The Planxty days were so innovative, but there is a bitter-sweet note as well. It's the same old story of musicians not having any control over their hard earned money, while others profit from their toil. It's a pity, but so common to hear stories of iconic bands being treated as cash cows in the music "industry". Anyhow, enough of that. I just had a thought. I wonder if Nicky Ryan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Ryan might be a good source of information on Andy's instruments. He was their sound engineer during the peak Planxty years.

[Mike Anderson]

Mike Anderson "I tend to wonder if a man with such a long and varied career sort of rolls his eyes every time someone brings up the distant past."
I've seen a video where Andy says he'd love to re-record all the Planxty albums again, but then thinks, maybe it wouldn't be the same. The Planxty days were so innovative, but there is a bitter-sweet note as well. It's the same old story of musicians not having any control over their hard earned money, while others profit from their toil. It's a pity, but so common to hear stories of iconic bands being treated as cash cows in the music "industry". Anyhow, enough of that. I just had a thought. I wonder if Nicky Ryan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Ryan might be a good source of information on Andy's instruments. He was their sound engineer during the peak Planxty years.

Yes, that's a great video Francis, good points there. And very good thought about Nicky Ryan. I looked up his website (linked from the Wikipedia article) and unfortunately there's no contact info - in fact it's a very badly broken Flash website with a lot of functionality not working at all. I'll see if I can find him though and if he's amenable to talking about it. I'll certainly post anything I learn.

[ollaimh]

Talking about the more exotic instruments Andy played (and he tried everything he could get his hands on, it seems), the waldzither is seen here (and his love for sudden time changes, I guess they wouldn't let him play for dancers), and what is that thing he is pictured with on the sleeve back of "Well Below the Valley" (at least indicating he played it on that record)?

that's a high end pierriera portugese guitar. they were cheap back then, but the last two i have seen on e bay went for over a grand. probably the next most desired after gracios. he used to string it with four courses.(in videos i have seen).

[Mike Anderson]

that's a high end pierriera portugese guitar. they were cheap back then, but the last two i have seen on e bay went for over a grand. probably the next most desired after gracios. he used to string it with four courses.(in videos i have seen).

That's another mystery: since he already had that nice Gibson since the early '70s, why was he acquiring things like a waldzither and guitarra and basically turning them into mandolins? Maybe just for the different timbres?

[ollaimh]

That's another mystery: since he already had that nice Gibson since the early '70s, why was he acquiring things like a waldzither and guitarra and basically turning them into mandolins? Maybe just for the different timbres?

he was turning them into mandolas not mandolins, that was his thing then. mandola lick to go with lunny's rhythm and countermelody. besides some of those walzithers and portuguese guitarras have tremendous tone. different from gibsons but tremendous.

[ollaimh]

Talking about the more exotic instruments Andy played (and he tried everything he could get his hands on, it seems), the waldzither is seen here (and his love for sudden time changes, I guess they wouldn't let him play for dancers), and what is that thing he is pictured with on the sleeve back of "Well Below the Valley" (at least indicating he played it on that record)?

that thing on the back of the well below the valey o is his pierriera portuguese guitarra, and a lisboa style. they were among the best made of that style. i assme he palyed it occasionally on the album. however i have never seen it in any video i have watched.

the lisboa have the smaller body and scale and the fiddle head stock. the coinbra have a larger body and scale and the flat tear drop head stoke, and the oporto are in between, longer scale, smaller body, with flat tear drop head stock, and there are azori and brazzilian ones that have a flower on the head stock, usually shorter scale, but i have only seen a few azori and bra.

i've played a lot of these. i like the jangly tone of the early ones, over the big bass of the later ones. so did andy by the look of his choice. those pierreiras were made of choice walnut backs and sides and european spruce choice tops--the two i have seen. on the richer side with still the twang of the early ones.

[Mike Anderson]

he was turning them into mandolas not mandolins, that was his thing then. mandola lick to go with lunny's rhythm and countermelody. besides some of those walzithers and portuguese guitarras have tremendous tone. different from gibsons but tremendous.

Thanks for these two informative posts ollaimh. I decided to go ahead and write Andy yesterday, but his website notes that he's touring Ireland with Usher's Island right now so I don't expect to hear back any time soon, if ever. Will of course post anything he has to say.

[garryireland]

Thanks for these two informative posts ollaimh. I decided to go ahead and write Andy yesterday, but his website notes that he's touring Ireland with Usher's Island right now so I don't expect to hear back any time soon, if ever. Will of course post anything he has to say.

I can ask him next month when he plays my folk club again

[Mike Anderson]

I can ask him next month when he plays my folk club again

That would be brilliant! I wrote him, but according to his website he's touring with Usher's Island right now so I wouldn't have expected anything for a long time. Thanks Garry!

[Bertram Henze]

BTW Andy is still fond of good instruments, apparently

[Mike Anderson]

Here's my reply from Andy - hopefully there'll be another regarding use on albums!
------------------------
Dear Michael,
I am one of the great dwellers on the past, so don’t be ashamed of asking me questions!
Back in 1971 it was hard to find mandolin type instruments and I wanted something that could play a little bit lower in pitch.
Mandolas were not heard of (by me) then.
A friend of mine offered me a Portugese guitarra in long term loan exchange for a Gibson L2 guitar I had.
It was a very uneven swap as the guitar was valuable and the PG was not!
But needs must.
I played the Portuguese Guitarra as a mandola. I think I tuned it DAEA or DAEB.
It can be heard on the first Planxty album and maybe also on some numbers on the second one.
I learned to string it over the couple of years I had it; as you know, it had to have loops on both ends.
Once I had the knack of looping the straight end of the string, it stayed in tune quite well.
The Waldzither was offered to me by somebody in Cork, forget now who it was.
It was very nasty looking when I bought it but I had the top re-built by Peter Abnett in Kent.
It had the same arrangement of string holding but was brighter than the PG but not quite as long so I tuned it EbBbFBb,
which meant it was a mandolin if capped at the fourth fret.
It had a lovely tone and I still have it knocking around somewhere.
It would have been played on the second Planxty album but I would have to listen to see what tracks it appeared on!
Hope this answers your questions - in the main.
I will listen to the first two albums when I get home and see if I can pick out what’s what!
All the Best,
Andy