'Red Snark' Tuners.

[Caleb]

I tend to agree. I am not sure about ugliest and most tasteless, but ugly yes. I take mine off after tuning. I also see guitar players, in addition to a tuner, keeping their capo on the headstock. Not to my taste, especially some of the new florescent colors, but what ever.

I a bit of exaggeration on my part, which I allow myself a little of from time to time, though never too much. I should have inserted one of those little smiley guys to top it off. All that to say, I don't like the look of a tuner left on a headstock. Oddly enough, capos left on guitar headstocks have never bothered me...

This whole thing reminds me of just how far I've strayed from Ben Franklin's timeless advice: "Let thy discontents be secrets."

[JeffD]

This whole thing reminds me of just how far I've strayed from Ben Franklin's timeless advice: "Let thy discontents be secrets."

Boy if everyone followed that the internet would be an empty shell, like an abandoned library.

I suspect that if I were 30 years younger the tuner left on the headstock would not bother me. Or the capo. Its just what one gets used to in the "formative years" I think.

These little bits of alien stuff jammed on your instrument for reasons other than aesthetics.

But they have become so ubiquitous I guess I need to just cowboy up and get used to it.

[Caleb]

Boy if everyone followed that the internet would be an empty shell, like an abandoned library.

I suspect that if I were 30 years younger the tuner left on the headstock would not bother me. Or the capo. Its just what one gets used to in the "formative years" I think.

These little bits of alien stuff jammed on your instrument for reasons other than aesthetics.

But they have become so ubiquitous I guess I need to just cowboy up and get used to it.

The whole formative years thing makes sense. When I was really learning guitar it was in a church setting where the song leader played a D35 and always had a capo clipped onto the headstock for quick access. I think it became associated with being a great player in my mind, because this guy was truly great. Good times and fond memories...

[JeffD]

The really cool guitar players left all the extra length of the strings on, all curled up on the headstock. Now that was a standard I didn't like even then.

I once saw Frank Zappa take his cigarette out of his mouth and stab it on a string end on the headstock, so he could conveniently pick it up and finish it a little while later. I thought that was THE. COOLEST. MOVE. I almost started smoking cigarettes just to be able to do that.

What I realize is that if they had clip on tuners back then, and if Frank Zappa clipped on one and left it there, after a snarky comment about "we tune because we aren't the Partridge Family"... well I would likely leave the tuner on today. I am such a sycophantic fan boy sometimes.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Way back in the Folk Boom days,a good friend of mine & a terrific Contemporary folk singer, used to do the cigarette thing - until the burning end fell off & burned the finish on his almost new Gibson J45 guitar headstock. He'd neatly trimmed the string ends & stuck the cigarette onto the stub of one of the strings sticking out from the string post. Unfortunately the cig.end was over the headstock.

Quite a lot of the singer / guitarists at that time used to leave long string ends sticking out from the headstock. You were almost guaranteed to loose an eye if you stood next to them. I don't know if they thought that it looked 'cool',but i gave 'em a wide berth,
Ivan

[Steve L]

I don't get this whole "aesthetic of the headstock" thing. An instrument is a performer's tool. Tuners and capos are additional tools. They're not stage props, the performers need and use the stuff and it makes sense they'd want them readily accessible. The Museum of Fine Arts in Boston has a musical instrument collection. They're interesting...some are beautiful. They're all silent, residing in glass coffins. Whatever a player needs to do to get his music across is fine with me. The music and the energy of the performer is what interests me.

[foldedpath]

I don't get this whole "aesthetic of the headstock" thing. An instrument is a performer's tool. Tuners and capos are additional tools. They're not stage props, the performers need and use the stuff and it makes sense they'd want them readily accessible.

Well, I don't get the readily accessible thing. The time it takes me to grab a tuner from my pocket or clipped to a mic stand is about 2 seconds. You have to take a second to unfold and turn it on anyway, so the difference in "accessibility" for me is negligible. As I mentioned before, for me it's less aesthetics than philosophy. I don't like having a lump of plastic on my headstock that isn't doing anything useful when I'm actually playing music.

There are probably some contributing factors in the music genre I play too. When I'm playing in a Scottish/Irish trad session, I'm surrounded by fiddlers, whistle players, and pipers. None of those players have tuners clipped onto their instruments full-time. Some of the fiddlers in these groups also use electronic tuners, and I've never seen a single one of them leave a tuner clipped on when they're playing. It establishes something of a convention: it would feel weird to be the only one in the room with a tuner clipped on while I'm playing.

I'm stubborn enough to think that if fiddlers aren't going to do it, then I'm not going to do it either. Even if I do have more strings to manage.

[Timbofood]

I just don't like the additional weight so, I tune and remove.

[sblock]

Well, I don't get the readily accessible thing. The time it takes me to grab a tuner from my pocket or clipped to a mic stand is about 2 seconds. You have to take a second to unfold and turn it on anyway, so the difference in "accessibility" for me is negligible. As I mentioned before, for me it's less aesthetics than philosophy. I don't like having a lump of plastic on my headstock that isn't doing anything useful when I'm actually playing music.

There are probably some contributing factors in the music genre I play too. When I'm playing in a Scottish/Irish trad session, I'm surrounded by fiddlers, whistle players, and pipers. None of those players have tuners clipped onto their instruments full-time. Some of the fiddlers in these groups also use electronic tuners, and I've never seen a single one of them leave a tuner clipped on when they're playing. It establishes something of a convention: it would feel weird to be the only one in the room with a tuner clipped on while I'm playing.

I'm stubborn enough to think that if fiddlers aren't going to do it, then I'm not going to do it either. Even if I do have more strings to manage.

So, say it takes you an extra 5 seconds to get a tuner, clip it on, turn it on, and use it. Actually, I suspect it's just a few seconds longer than that, in practice, say 6-10 sec. Now, in a friendly jam, this is not too terribly long. Especially in ITM, where the interval between tunes can sometimes be quite long, as players in the pub stop to sip their beers! But believe me, that same time can seem like an eternity onstage, during a performance! Especially if you happen to be the spokesperson for the band. Also, having a tuner at the ready on your headstock encourages you to check your tuning more often. So, the newest generation of players likes the idea of being able to check and correct their tuning quickly. More power to them, I say! Although this is not the "way I was brought up," I don't think the aesthetic price for that useful capability, with a fairly ugly appendage sticking off your headstock, is really too high to pay. We are even beginning to see some headstock tuners pop up in classical music stage performances, too (e.g. classical guitarists). They are a truly functional accessory. Maybe the next generation of headstock tuners won't be so damned ugly? Maybe someone will make them with a carved wood shell, or with lovely pearl or abalone inlays? Or better yet, perhaps they'll become small enough to embed permanently in the headstock itself, and become a part of the instrument, functioning nearly invisibly (to the audience)? We call this progress!!

[allenhopkins]

... I once saw Frank Zappa take his cigarette out of his mouth and stab it on a string end on the headstock, so he could conveniently pick it up and finish it a little while later. I thought that was THE. COOLEST. MOVE...

That was a signature gimmick of the African-American folksinger Josh White.

By the way, talking about tuner visibility, I'm now using the D'Addario Planet Waves mini-tuners on most of my performance instruments. You can see them, but they're less than the size of a quarter, they're black, and they work pretty well. I keep my red Snarks around because they have the microphone feature, and that's cool for instruments like Autoharp that don't easily host clip-on tuners. I have one of the D'Addarios on each, guitar, banjo, ukulele and mandolin.

Still a red Snark loyalist, though -- and I'd rather see the clip-on tuner, and have the instrument playing in tune, than have a clean, uncluttered headstock but an out-of-tune instrument.

[AlanN]

Joe Q. Public doesn't care if a thingy is on the headstock, likely doesn't know if/when a string is minimally out of tune; it's we musicians who notice. On stage, it's handy to have clipped on. Some models fold away or are unobtrusive, so can be somewhat hidden. In jams, I use it, then remove it. I just don't like a strong clamp on the h/s. Others don't remove it. So be it. There seem to be fewer and fewer Tony Rices out there.

[JeffD]

I'm stubborn enough to think that if fiddlers aren't going to do it, then I'm not going to do it either. Even if I do have more strings to manage.

I know one or two fiddlers who have "installed" a small tuner, like a D'Addario Micro or something, on the top edge of the tail piece. Not my cup of tea.

I see a lot of fiddlers use a tuning app on their cell phone, placed on their lap as they tune, and then put away.

[foldedpath]

So, say it takes you an extra 5 seconds to get a tuner, clip it on, turn it on, and use it. Actually, I suspect it's just a few seconds longer than that, in practice, say 6-10 sec. Now, in a friendly jam, this is not too terribly long. Especially in ITM, where the interval between tunes can sometimes be quite long, as players in the pub stop to sip their beers! But believe me, that same time can seem like an eternity onstage, during a performance! Especially if you happen to be the spokesperson for the band.

I agree, and when playing a gig I've used a tuner pedal for that reason. It's a bit tricky to rig when using a clip-on mic or an external mic, but it can be done. That's a seamless way to tune up on a gig, with the added advantage that after hitting the pedal the mandolin is dead quiet while tuning up.

Also, having a tuner at the ready on your headstock encourages you to check your tuning more often.

Now that part, I'll disagree with. I check my tuning continuously while playing, with my Mark 1 ears. I don't need a tuner to tell me if something is going sour, either between adjacent strings, or in relation to the rest of the instruments being played. If you depend on a tuner to tell you if you're in tune or not, you'll never develop that ear learning skill.

I've seen this over and over again at jams where clipped-on tuners are common, like "mixed acoustic jams" or OldTime jams dominated by guitar players. People will be obviously out of tune with a flashy tuner clipped to their headstock. Drives me nuts.

Maybe the next generation of tuners will be continuously active, and flash a big red strobe light when the tuning passes a certain threshold. I know a few people who could use that...

[foldedpath]

Still a red Snark loyalist, though -- and I'd rather see the clip-on tuner, and have the instrument playing in tune, than have a clean, uncluttered headstock but an out-of-tune instrument.

I would too, but that's a false dichotomy based on a worst-case scenario. You can be in tune without a tuner clipped on.

[JeffD]

Maybe the next generation of tuners will be continuously active, and flash a big red strobe light when the tuning passes a certain threshold. I know a few people who could use that...

Ain't that the truth.

[Austin Bob]

Maybe the next generation of tuners will be continuously active, and flash a big red strobe light when the tuning passes a certain threshold. I know a few people who could use that...

Our choir director has a great voice, and can sing spot on in any key. But he seems to have no idea when his guitar is woefully out of tune.

I on the other hand can instantly hear when any instrument or singer is out of tune, except of course my own voice when I am singing. Go figure.

[Tobin]

foldedpath, I absolutely agree! Those clip-on tuners not only look terrible, but they apparently don't help people stay in tune. They are no replacement for the original organic tuner (aka one's ears). If I had a nickel for every time I've seen two instruments tune up to "green" on their Snarks, only to have them woefully out of tune with each other, I'd have enough to buy a steak dinner.

And let's be honest: despite the marketing, these Snarks (or any clip-on tuner, for all I know) aren't doing much good when you're in a room full of noise. I can sit across the room trying to tune my instrument while my wife is tuning hers, and each of our Snarks will pick up the other's tone. It happens all the time. I'll be trying to tune my banjo, and my wife will tell me I'm flat because her Snark on her mandola is getting a reading from me (even though my own Snark says I'm dead on). If this is happening with just the two of us in a quiet room, imagine how accurate your Snark really is when you're in a noisy jam, trying to tune in the middle of a song. Your Snark is picking up everything around it. Do you really think it's giving you a true reading on your instrument? And don't get me started on people who use tuners on their phones sitting in their laps!

Sorry, but you just can't tune an instrument accurately with a tuner in a noisy room. Your instrument is vibrating from the ambient noise and the people noodling on their own instruments between tunes. It may tell you that you're in tune, but if your ears tell you otherwise, trust your ears! Because your Snark is either lying to you or just grossly confused about who it's listening to.

Add to that, the fact that electronic tuners will read differently when their batteries are low. I've seen it happen. A guy will tune up and think he's in tune, but will be horribly flat from everybody else. Then he changes the batteries and discovers that it was leading him astray.

Now I'm not knocking Snarks or any other electronic tuners. I use 'em myself. But they have their place. And that place is in a quiet room before you start playing with others, or if you can catch a fairly quiet moment between tunes. Beyond that, though, you have to learn to "tune to the room", and take that silly looking contraption off your instrument!

[CES]

Joe Q. Public doesn't care if a thingy is on the headstock, likely doesn't know if/when a string is minimally out of tune; it's we musicians who notice. On stage, it's handy to have clipped on. Some models fold away or are unobtrusive, so can be somewhat hidden. In jams, I use it, then remove it. I just don't like a strong clamp on the h/s. Others don't remove it. So be it. There seem to be fewer and fewer Tony Rices out there.

Man, as you know probably even much better than myself, there's only one Tony Rice!

I tend to remove mine when performing, too, but I don't really care either way. The two times I've been fortunate to see Chris Thile play, I couldn't have cared less about the tuner on his Loar's headstock. To be even more sacrilegious, I typically only play in public in church, and I usually have a music stand around waist height...I rarely use it, but do like having the lead sheet on less familiar songs...also makes a handy storage site for those pesky tuners. I tend to leave the guitar capo on the HS, though.

[Jess L.]

Our choir director has a great voice, and can sing spot on in any key. But he seems to have no idea when his guitar is woefully out of tune. ...

Yup. Or when the guitar is in tune to A440 but the piano isn't (oldfashioned mechanical piano, not a digital one), so the resulting sound is clashy/dissonant (bad).

There's little point in everyone else tuning to a digital tuner when there is *any* fixed-pitch instrument in the room, whether it's a piano or concertina or accordian or whatever.

The other instruments need to tune to the fixed-pitch instrument and then try to *stay* in tune to that instrument by ear.

(Ironically, seems like the fixed-pitch instruments are often the loudest ones too, so they don't blend into the background very well.)

Compounding the problem for churches especially, is that sometimes they only turn on the building's heat for a short time a couple days per week. The resulting wide temperature variations are not the best environment for holding tuning in mechanical/acoustic instruments that reside there permanently.

... Its just what one gets used to in the "formative years" ...

Agree.

I used to be offended by geared tuning-pegs, because, the first few years I was playing music, our instruments did not have geared pegs (fiddles and old homemade banjos etc), and I had some misguided belief that 'real' musicians didn't need such fancy accoutrements. At that time, I thought geared pegs were for pansies that were too lazy and/or not bright enough to use a 'standard' peg. Lol. Clearly I had some incorrect ideas back then.

Here's how ridiculous some people can get with their extremes, I will use *me* as an example, this was something I used to be offended by even though now I realize it doesn't even matter in the long run:

Another of my woefully-misguided beliefs, I thought that "hand made" was *always* better than machine-made, to the point where I refused to use *any* power tools whatsoever when dinking around with making instrument-related items. Dumb.

(Part of my temporary cluelessness there was leftover 1930's thinking where many people believed that "machines put people out of work" and thus machines or mechanization of any sort was a bad thing.)

But I finally got over *that* absurd idea, and now I'm 100-percent in favor of streamlining the workflow, mechanizing anything that can be mechanized (for instance, using a Dremel instead of tediously hand-carving small items), and doing whatever it takes to reduce the physical wear-and-tear on the person who's actually doing the work.

So to bring it full circle, how all that relates to the topic here, is that I see this modern digital-tuner controversy in kind of the same light. Yeah it makes things easier in some regards, yeah it's a new technology and something that us older folk didn't grow up with, but no it's not necessarily bad in and of itself, it's just a tool that helps the musician to do their job more efficiently. At first I was suspicious of digital tuners too, one of my oldest friends was an extremely-early-adopter of some fancy (and rather large) strobe tuner thingie, I thought he was nuts, I was like "Why don't you just use a tuning fork, that works fine." Lol.

I've finally come around to accepting digital tuners as being "ok" so I don't care if someone has 10 of them clamped onto their instrument's peghead, whatever, I go to shows to *hear* stuff, not to get caught up in *visual* technicalities.

... music stand ...

Music stands eh, now *there's* a Pandora's box as to visuals and audience acceptance... depending on genre of course...

[Jess L.]

... Maybe someone will make them with a carved wood shell, or with lovely pearl or abalone inlays? ...

I wonder if anyone's ever dressed up their digital tuner with sequins or acrylic 'jewels' or other such things, like how some people decorate their cellphones... not that it would necessarily help the visual appeal that much, depending on the type of audience I guess... I wouldn't do that myself, but on the other hand I wouldn't object to seeing such a thing at a performance, I guess it'd be just another aspect of the 'entertainment' angle of things...

[allenhopkins]

I would too, but that's a false dichotomy based on a worst-case scenario. You can be in tune without a tuner clipped on.

If so, it's an unfortunately frequent "worst case." I'm not referring necessarily to professional performances, but to jams, sing-arounds, other less formal musical events where there's a wide range of instruments -- and of musicianship.

And, of course, you can be out of tune with a tuner clipped on -- if you don't use it...

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Tobin - ".....but you just can't tune an instrument accurately with a tuner in a noisy room.". I agree !. I use my PC as a source of ''pick along'' music when i'm practicing. I can easily tell when i'm out of tune & whip out my trusty tuner (whichever one in whichever mandolin case) to tune up. If i don't pause the music,it's too distracting. Even if i'm tuning by watching the strobe on the tuner my ears are still part of the circuit & i simply can't tune up easily. I always tune one string of a pair & then tune the other to the first string so that they 'sound' together,so noise doesn't work for me at all.

As for leaving the tuner on the headstock,personally i don't do it. It only takes a couple of seconds to take it from my pocket & clip it to the headstock,so that's what i do - other folk can do it in their own way,just as it should be,
Ivan