'Red Snark' Tuners.

[Polecat]

When you guys are getting just one reference note and tuning all the strings to that, what are you doing?
...I don't have a good way to tune one string course to another...

I tune to fifths by ear (tune the string down below where it belongs, play it along with the reference string and tune up until it sounds "right"). With an instrument tuned in fifths, the second harmonic on the lower string (above the 7th fret on, say, the G string) is the same note as the first harmonic on the string above (in this case, above the 12th fret on the D string). This method works fine for instruments without frets, such as violins and cellos, however, I've found that with the mandolin, if you tune this way and get the harmonics identical and beat-free, there are intonation issues with the 2nd-4th or 5th frets, especially with the A and D strings (I don't know why this should be, the first fret is always OK), which are hardly noticeable playing melody, but jar when playing chords such a G (0023) or Am (2230). If I tune fifths by ear, the upper note is inevitably minimally flat (by comparison of identical harmonics - the "beat" is there, however slow), but both my cheapo +/- 1cent and tuner programme (from Katsura Shareware) claim that I am in tune. I presume that making allowance for these minimal aberrations is what the progammers for high-end tuners such as Peterson are doing with their "sweetened tunings". So long as my ears do the job, though, I prefer to rely on them.

[Jill McAuley]

Just got the Polytune and I find it to be way more accurate than my old red Snark. The Snark just didn't seem to get the A and E strings accurately in tune, whereas the Polytune nails it. Easy to read display, fits in the neck pocket of my case - I'm a fan!

[Stevo75]

I tune to fifths by ear (tune the string down below where it belongs, play it along with the reference string and tune up until it sounds "right").

So when you're doing this, you would get the G string in tune (for example) from a tuning fork, and then you would play those open with the open D string and listen for the correct interval of a fifth?

[darrylicshon]

That's the way i learned to tune the violin sometimes i tune my mandolin that way but i use my FT-1620 California Series tuner mostly. By learning to tune that way i can tell when I'm out of tune just by strumming across the strings

[Polecat]

So when you're doing this, you would get the G string in tune (for example) from a tuning fork, and then you would play those open with the open D string and listen for the correct interval of a fifth?

Exactly - I only ave an A=440Hz tuning fork, so I tune "down" from the A string until D and G sound correct, check the A string again and correct if necessary (only the case if the instrument was badly out of tune), then tune the E string. Usually takes a minute or so unless I'm having a bad day.

[Stevo75]

Exactly - I only ave an A=440Hz tuning fork, so I tune "down" from the A string until D and G sound correct, check the A string again and correct if necessary (only the case if the instrument was badly out of tune), then tune the E string. Usually takes a minute or so unless I'm having a bad day.

Wow, that's impressive. I've only tried to tune to the exact notes (I never even thought I could do it any other way). I'm going to try this later today and see if I can do it. I bet it's great training for the ear...

[Drew Egerton]

How do you guys that tune by ear do it with a banjo and guitar banging away in the same room?
I can't imagine being able to get away with it in a band or jam situation, at least not the ones I play in...

[Polecat]

I for one can't tune by ear with too much background noise, that's where a digital tuner comes in handy. I don't play at jams or sessions (there aren't any here in south Germany near where I live, at least that I know about), because that isn't the kind of music making I enjoy. With the band I play in, we respect each others' need for quiet to tune during rehearsals - live it's different; it isn't polite to expect the audience to shut up and wait till I'm ready to play, so again, I use a tuner. As much as possible, however, I rely upon my ears, so as to retain the ability.

[Beanzy]

When you guys are getting just one reference note and tuning all the strings to that, what are you doing?

As we lack sustain it does make tuning the fifth more of a race against time than on the longer scale instruments So I tune the a course first then get the fifths initially by listening for the characteristic drone you get from a well tuned fifth. That's what my cello teacher used to mean by "can you hear the bagpipes" once they're in that ballpark, then it's only a quick check against the harmonic to get it locked in to perfect fifths. There's plenty of sustain to give enough time for that tweak.

[Mandobart]

Folks tuning by 5ths intervals is how everyone that's ever played in orchestra learned to tune going back centuries. This isn't any new kind of rocket surgery. The concertmaster/mistress tunes his/her A to a 440 Hz tuning fork (maybe it wasn't always 440 Hz - whole new topic). Plays the A for everyone else to tune to. OK so the upright bass player is tuned in 4ths, not 5ths. This is how I tuned for many years while playing in orchestra with other trained musicians. I can't do it today in a room full of noodlers or drunks, even though my Morris F4 has loads of sustain. That's why I'll keep my Snarks.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Usually,in an orchestral context,one of the wind musicians (Oboe /flute etc.) will tune their instrument up & then the rest of the orchestra will tune to them.
I'm still at a loss in understanding how a Red Snark tuner fails to tune to a correct note !. From Jim McCauley - "The Snark just didn't seem to get the A and E strings accurately in tune, whereas the Polytune nails it.". I used one of my own 2 RS's yesterday & it tuned my mandolin perfectly. One thing - i make sure that the strings i've already tuned are 'damped' with a finger while i tune the next pair. I've found that the RS's are so sensitive,that they'll pick up on the tiniest vibration that could still be going on in the other strings. That was one of the drawbacks of the Intelli 500 tuners. When tuning the G & D strings it would get confused. One of them got so confused it got stuck in G & nothing i did could shift it,
Ivan

[allenhopkins]

Usually,in an orchestral context,one of the wind musicians (Oboe /flute etc.) will tune their instrument up & then the rest of the orchestra will tune to them.

Oboe, generally. If you've ever tried tuning an oboe, sliding the fussy little double-reed in and out fractions of an inch, you know why it's probably easiest to accept the oboe's "A" or whatever as the standard for the orchestra.

With the flute you've got a longer "slide" to work with. And also, the piercing nasal tone of the oboe cuts through everything; so if it's not in tune with the other instruments, it's "fingernails on a chalkboard."

[Beanzy]

, the piercing nasal tone of the oboe cuts through everything; so if it's not in tune with the other instruments, it's "fingernails on a chalkboard."

In our orchestra it's like that even when they are in tune.

[Ivan Kelsall]

An ex-girfriend of mine from a loooong time ago,played Oboe in the Manchester UK Youth Orchestra. I remember that it was a pernickety instrument to tune - i could tune my banjo in a fraction of the time. That's an ''as yet undiscovered combo.'' Banjo & Oboe. Not for the faint hearted,
Ivan

[Austin Bob]

An ex-girfriend of mine from a loooong time ago,played Oboe in the Manchester UK Youth Orchestra. I remember that it was a pernickety instrument to tune - i could tune my banjo in a fraction of the time. That's an ''as yet undiscovered combo.'' Banjo & Oboe. Not for the faint hearted,
Ivan

I think Dante had originally conceived the 10th Circle of Hell (Discordant) to consist of Banjo, Oboe and Bagpipe players, or simply The BOB for short.

[allenhopkins]

...That's an ''as yet undiscovered combo.'' Banjo & Oboe. Not for the faint hearted...

"Undiscovered?" Not quite:

[Rob Ross]

For all of you that have had the ball socket on your Snark break, like just about every one of mine has, Snark has a new tuner out called the HZ-1. It is more compact, with a full wrap around ball socket instead of the 3 piece guaranteed-to-break socket of the original SN-1 (Red, Blue, Black, etc, etc) tuner. The display is a little different from the older version. I prefer the older display somewhat, but the new one is just as accurate as the old one. I wrote to Snark about the fact that my Snarks ate batteries and always broke (included pictures of a trio of dead Snarks), so they sent me a SN-1 and two funky little blue cube S-1 Son of Snark Tuners. Unfortunately, the Son of Snarks are for guitars, and frankly are unreadable on a mandolin. Luckily, I know lots of guitar players. Two things to take away: 1) Snark DOES stand by their replacement warranty, and 2) Snark is obviously listening to feedback and fixing the things that don't work right.

[ollaimh]

The Polytune is far more accurate than the Snarks, with more resolution. When you use both at the same time, the Snark will give that OK center indication while the Polytune goes in much farther so notes can be nailed on the head, and it is an audible difference. NFI, just personal comparing.

i find my korg with a hot dot is also more accurate than a red snark. the snark is convient. i bought a peterson for alternte scales, but haven't taken the time to figure out how to use it. i'll have to look up the polytune

[ollaimh]

The Polytune is far more accurate than the Snarks, with more resolution. When you use both at the same time, the Snark will give that OK center indication while the Polytune goes in much farther so notes can be nailed on the head, and it is an audible difference. NFI, just personal comparing.

does the polytune have functions for equal tempered tuning, and mean tempered tuning and for modal d for early music--or modal g , that is perfect one key tunings? and can you program others? easter? early bagpipes etc?

[Ivan Kelsall]

I bought a Polytune tuner instead of a third Red Snark. With any new tuner,i test it using a G (guitar 3rd string) tuning fork. My 2 Red Snarks made the grade 'spot on',the 'twice the price +' Polytune did the same,but nothing more. I tuned my Ellis using the Polytune,that's the mandolin i bought it for,& then put a Red Snark on it - the Red Snark was spot on as well. How accurate above 100% can you be ?. A tuner is either accurate or it's not,there's no middle ground. So how can a Polytune tuner be more accurate ?. If we're talking about the ease with which it displays the notes,then i'd still say that a Red Snark shows the note as easily as a Polytune tuner. Having bought a Polytune tuner,which i do like,i must say that at over twice the cost of a Red Snark,for me,it wasn't worth the extra cost,& in all honesty,i never thought that it would be, I wanted 'different' & was willing to try one out,
Ivan

[almeriastrings]

does the polytune have functions for equal tempered tuning, and mean tempered tuning and for modal d for early music--or modal g , that is perfect one key tunings? and can you program others? easter? early bagpipes etc?

No.

Look at the Petersen Stroboplus HD or the Stroboclip.

[pops1]

I have put two tuners on the same instrument, while the better tuner is showing not in tune the lesser one is showing in tune. I have also had the tuner say I lam in tune when my ear says 'NOT' adjust the string and the tuner still says I am in tune. +or- 1 or 2 cents is not that accurate. I do also like Ivan and dampen one string of the pair when tuning.

[Polecat]

A tuner is either accurate or it's not,there's no middle ground. So how can a Polytune tuner be more accurate ?. If we're talking about the ease with which it displays the notes,then i'd still say that a Red Snark shows the note as easily as a Polytune tuner. Having bought a Polytune tuner,which i do like,i must say that at over twice the cost of a Red Snark,for me,it wasn't worth the extra cost,& in all honesty,i never thought that it would be, I wanted 'different' & was willing to try one out,
Ivan

If you test a Tuner with a tuning fork, unless it is broken or a piece of junk, of course it will show the correct reading. The issue is one of tolerance - the Snark (and a number of other tuners) has a relatively wider bracket of frequencies that it will regard as being "in tune" in comparison to the more expensive Peterson or T.C. electronics tuners (or my megacheapo chinese tuner). If you're happy with the Snark's wider tolerance bracket, well and good. Did you ever do the "reverse test" I suggested, tune using the Snark and test the tuned instrument with the Polytune?

[pops1]

Some tuners are accurate to +or- 1 cent, some 2 cents. A better tuner is accurate to .1cent, a huge difference especially if you can hear it and most can.

[Ivan Kelsall]

If my Red Snark or Polytune respond with 100 % accuracy to a G tuning fork,then i'd expect them to respond accurately to a G string(s) when it's in tune,as they seem to. Any minute difference from 'spot on' is far below my range of hearing. If the centre point reading is showing 'spot on' & there's no fluctuation to either side of that point,then i take it to mean that the strings are accurately in tune. Reversing the tuner sequence wouldn't show any differences - they both showed 'spot on' readings. After checking the Red Snark against the Polytune,if i'd put the Polytune back on (reverse sequence), should have i expected a difference ?. I don't think - so unless i'd changed something myself. Even my pretty inexpensive Intelli 500's got me 'in tune' as accurately as either a Snark or the Polytune. The one thing i really like about the Snarks,is their ability to pick up on a note as soon as there's some reasonable tension on the strings after re-stringing. As long as they're not flapping around,it'll register a note,something i haven't tried with the Polytune yet,
Ivan