Cleaning up inlay pocket?

[HogTime]

I'm inlaying a large (9/16" high) script letter "L" into my uke project peghead. It has a very thin layer of ebony (I think) over the mahogany beneath. The inlay is up to 1/8" wide, so the pocket has some room to get a small tool in it.

I'm using a Dremel with a very small bit to route out the pocket to a pencil line I drew around the inlay. Naturally, the inlay won't go in after the first cut. Any tips on enlarging the pocket at the binding points? I've tried a micro-chisel (had some problems with it) and small files of various shapes (called rifflers, I believe).

Even though the Dremel is on a router base, I'm reluctant to use it clean things up, due to my old shaky hands.

Thanks,

[pops1]

I have used micro chisels for this a lot. They need to be very sharp and take off very little each time. They work well for getting into the corners too.

Just happened to think the micro chisels that I use are dogleg, which helps get into the inlay pocket.

[DHopkins]

I have a set of micro bits that I got from Harbor Freight several years ago. The smallest is about the size of a human hair. They've held up nicely, although I certainly don't use them every day.

http://www.harborfreight.com/20-pc-c...set-62379.html

[sunburst]

I use a pocket knife.

[Jess L.]

I have a set of micro bits. ... The smallest is about the size of a human hair...

http://www.harborfreight.com/20-pc-c...set-62379.html

Thanks for the tip, they look handy.

I use a pocket knife.

I used to use a set of Xacto knives for all my inlay stuff (I didn't have any powertools at all back then), worked good and very precise, I could get nice close fits using the Xacto knives, but it was a slow process.

... old shaky hands. ...

I don't know if a non-powertool (such as a knife of some sort) would be better, or worse, in that situation?

Any tips on enlarging the pocket at the binding points?

It just occurred to me, that perhaps you were asking how to determine WHERE the binding points are located? Rather than which tool to use to enlarge the binding points once you find them?

If that's the case, I don't recall that I had any special tricks to determine the high spots or tight areas, but it was a million years ago (1960s/1970s) when I was trying my hand at inlays and there's undoubtedly a lot of the technique that I've forgotten. The parts I *do* remember, are lots of trial and error, er not so much "error" but rather just lots of trials and testing. If I were to resume doing that kind of stuff, I'd at least have a Dremel or something, but back then I didn't believe in electric tools (or electric instruments, for that matter).

[Michael Lewis]

Do you have a headband magnifier? It really helps. It doesn't keep you from making mistakes but when you take the magnifier off the mistakes are much smaller than they looked when you make them.

[Bruiser]

I'll second the suggestion for a good magnifier.

I used to use X-acto knives to work problem areas, but I quit using those after I broke off the tips off a couple of the pointy blades (#111, if I recall correctly). Digging out those little metal shards from the wood can make a mess. Now I use real carving knives; the blades are stronger. You just have to keep them razor sharp, and use the strop often between sharpenings. When the inlay is close to dropping in, I use a scraper to shave off the last few atoms that hanging it up.

I usually have problems in a couple areas: any sharp corners in the pocket can have a few wood fibers that are hanging in there, and are hard to perfectly clean out. And any edges of the pocket need to be perpendicular to the surface of the wood, all the way to the bottom of the pocket.

The same goes for the inlay; the edges have be square and clean. I usually go over the edges with needle files to clean up any roughness.

To find the tight spots, I lay the inlay on the pocket and try to rock it side-to-side. The inlay will rock on the tight spots.

Probably more important than getting a perfect fit of the inlay in the pocket is to get a good color match between the filler and the wood, AFTER the epoxy hardens. It's easy with ebony (if it's black), harder with rosewood, and very difficult in lighter woods. Make a couple of extra inlays and practice the filler mix on scrap wood before you start on the real instrument.

Unless you're using a CNC machine, it's almost impossible to get a perfect line-to-line fit of the inlay in the pockets (I never have), but do your best and rely on a good color match of the filler to make it look perfect.

I have just been at this for about three years, working from the book "Pearl Inlay" by James E. Patterson. Available from Stew--Mac and others (nfi). And remember to have fun!

Ed

[Bruiser]

BTW, a lot of the advice I've seen on Youtube is WRONG. Take anything you see there with a grain of salt, and check back here before proceeding.

Ed

[jhowell]

BTW, a lot of the advice I've seen on Youtube is WRONG. Take anything you see there with a grain of salt, and check back here before proceeding.

Ed

+1 on this. Its also very worthwhile to take a half dozen practice inlays on scrap before moving on.

[Dale Ludewig]

Going back to the beginning, a pencil line is not accurate enough. Try gluing the inlay down with a little Duco or something like that. Then scribe around it with an awl sharpened to a long tapered point. You can get into all sorts of tight places with that where a pencil can't go. Then soak the inlay with acetone or lacquer thinner and get it off, surface cleaned up, and then use white chalk rubbed over the area so your scribed line is visible. The Dremel with a very small bit, lots of light, and, as mentioned, a magnifier will get you 95% of the way.

Rifflers aren't likely to get you where you need to be. If you're inlaying into ebony, you can have a little, very little, slop in the fit and your filler, if dyed black, should cover the problems. I usually use the Dremel to slowly approach the perfect fit.

[DHopkins]

BTW, a lot of the advice I've seen on Youtube is WRONG. Take anything you see there with a grain of salt, and check back here before proceeding.

Ed

Is it wrong or just different. If it works for someone else, is it wrong?

And they're right about practicing and the magnifier. You practice for obvious reasons. And, in addition to helping you, the headband magnifier makes you look like you know what you're doing.

[Bill McCall]

I agree that a pencil line is not good enough and I recommend repeated tracing of the actual inlay, glued as mentioned above, to avoid a random ebony chip. Ebony is quite brittle and a deeper scribe line ( I used an actual scribes from Starrett) is a great help. for cleaning up, I used a short small chisel with an angled blade (turning chisel) that is both stiff and very sharp. Ear protection if you're using a Dremel and bright light are your friends. A few practice runs and you can make it look like it grew there.

[sunburst]

Under the heading of "If it works for someone else, is it wrong?", I worked with a guy (with a well known name nowadays) who outlined inlays with a pencil and did a fine job. He had a lot of practice...

[Bruiser]

Is it wrong or just different. If it works for someone else, is it wrong?

And they're right about practicing and the magnifier. You practice for obvious reasons. And, in addition to helping you, the headband magnifier makes you look like you know what you're doing.

I wasn't talking about "wrong" in terms of scriber vs pencil, or X-Acto knives vs carving knives. Those are minor differences, and I've tried both and have my preferences. YMMV

I was thinking of a youtube video in which a guy used a ~1 1/2 HP router to hog out oversized pockets for trapezoidal block inlays in his Les Paul neck (already radiused and fretted), used big wood chisels to excavate more wood to make the pocket bottoms flat because the router was riding on the radiused fret tops. For filler, he slathered in a lot of walnut wood paste (pretty good match for rosewood, he figured) and used big files to dress it all down level with the fretboards, give or take a few big gouges.

If he offered to do that on one of my instruments, I'd say, "No, that's the wrong way to it." He seemed pleased with himself, though, and some of the commenters said it was pretty cool, and said they would try it on their own instruments.

I think it's at least a little wrong for a total beginner to present a cringe-worthy hack job as "the way to do it." There are much better sources of information than youtube.

Sorry if I spoke too strongly about what's "wrong." It was 5- something AM, and I hadn't my coffee yet.

Peace,

Ed

[Bill McCall]

Under the heading of "If it works for someone else, is it wrong?", I worked with a guy (with a well known name nowadays) who outlined inlays with a pencil and did a fine job. He had a lot of practice...

Quite right. In my time in the trade I saw plenty of guys do fine work in a variety of ways. But I also saw some guys get excellent results more quickly, more reliably and with more apparent ease than others. I'm all in favor of any way you choose, with the safety caveats.

[HogTime]

Thanks for all the tips! I tried a pocket knife and it seemed to work a bit better. Then I remembered I had some very sharp Flexcut carving knives. The small one worked good. Still using a riffler for the final fit. I'm on my 3rd try and it looks like it will turn out the best. Going to try the magnifier when routing the 4th.

Thanks,

[pops1]

If you are like me and can't see the wall without glasses, I remove the glasses and can see great up close. Just like my own built in magnifier.

[Bruiser]

If you are like me and can't see the wall without glasses, I remove the glasses and can see great up close. Just like my own built in magnifier.

I'm jealous. I've often thought I would give up a part of my distance vision to be able to see close up again. As I've aged, I need stronger reading glasses, but I can read street signs about a block before my wife can.

To the OP, I'm glad you found some useful advice. Ed

[Jess L.]

I'm jealous. I've often thought I would give up a part of my distance vision to be able to see close up again. ...

You likely wouldn't be jealous of *my* vision, I see fine upclose within a very narrow range of about 4-8 inches (10cm-20cm), the range gets narrower and narrower as I get older (used to be about 3-12 inches), without glasses it's still good for doing detailed closeup work that doesn't require glancing at more-distant objects, but anything further away than that becomes *very* blurry *very* fast. Without my glasses, I can't even tell what's on a giant TV from 8 feet away, and I wouldn't be able to read street signs at *all* unless I got out of the car and walked up right next to the sign. Although, on the bright side, at least I don't have to worry about wondering where I left my glasses, since I'm always wearing them... compared to people I know who use only "reading glasses" (on, off, on again, etc) which are always getting misplaced. But I can say this much, having worn bleeping glasses since I was 9 years old, they become tiresome when you have to wear them *all* the time, especially with a super-strong prescription and thick heavy lenses. Plastic (lightweight) lenses don't hold up to serious use, they scratch too easily if you're in dusty environments, so it's real glass and just try to keep the lens's physical dimensions small enough to not make holes on the bridge of one's nose from the sheer weight of the things. So yeah, fulltime glasses wearing is probably not really something you'd want to trade for. I've always been a little envious of people who only needed to put on glasses for reading!

... To the OP, I'm glad you found some useful advice. ...

Likewise.

[Bruiser]

You likely wouldn't be jealous of *my* vision, I see fine upclose within a very narrow range of about 4-8 inches

Sorry, I didn't mean to make light of your vision. My wife has vision more like yours than mine, and I see what that's like. Glasses are a hassle, no matter which end of the range you need them for. Ed

[pops1]

I am like JL277z, I wear glasses all of the time all of my life. Plastic lenses give me headaches so like JL277z I wear glass. I have resorted to getting children's glasses to keep the weight down, not complaining tho I have had friends that have had lazer surgery to restore vision or cataract surgery and as a side restore vision, but I don't think I would want to give up my close vision even if it meant I could see without glasses. Been wearing them since forth grade, nearly 60 years so guess you get used to it. I have tried the magnifier years ago, glad I don't have to use one