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Thread: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    I know there are other shapes, I mean why are just two really popular? Does their shape give them better sound? How come the cheese slice isn't popular? (because it's ugly, but as an example, it seems just 2 or 3 basic styles are the norm.)

  2. #27

    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    Fear not the Luthier Police, showing up at your wood-shop to enforce stylistic orthodoxy. You wanta make one that looks like an avocado or a Zeppelin, go for it.
    Right on!

    If I were to build a mandolin I'd want it to be shaped such that when I'm sitting down the mandolin would sit on my right leg just like my electric guitar does, without having to fuss with the mandolin to keep it from scooting around all the time. I hate to say it but, for me, the standard solid-body Strat-style electric guitar body shape is nearly ideal for stability and ease of playing, it just sits there and doesn't try to squirm away like mandolins do. Of course the guitar weighs a ton too, and it isn't top-heavy like my mandolin or some of the old 1890s thin-rim banjos I used to have, so the Strat body shape doesn't even need a strap, it's very stable as-is. So... if I were to build a custom mandolin... it'd probably end up looking like a slightly-scaled-down electric guitar shape... reinventing the wheel no doubt... don't know if that would be acoustically-good... maybe, maybe not. Would definitely further confuse non-musician audiences who sometimes already think mandolins are guitars or ukuleles.

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  4. #28
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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobin View Post
    I agree that the F style mandolin was probably named as an alphabetical sequence with other shapes or models. This also explains how H is a mandola, K is a mandocello, L is a guitar, etc. Missing letters are probably from models that never succeeded.
    I would be inclined to think Gibson just pulled the letters (and numbers) out of the air. There doesn't seem to be any method to their madness and to me that is typical of Gibson.

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  6. #29
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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    I know there are other shapes, I mean why are just two really popular? Does their shape give them better sound? How come the cheese slice isn't popular? (because it's ugly, but as an example, it seems just 2 or 3 basic styles are the norm.)
    The two main shapes are popular because they are traditional. Gibson did some heavy, heavy marketing back in the early 1900s to establish their mandolin design as the way mandolins should look. And it worked, insofar as the mandolin orchestras and mandolin craze of the early 20th century went. But then mandolins fell out of style.

    It was really Bill Monroe who popularized it again. The F-style mandolin shape has been, and continues to be today, the most sought-after shape, due to generations of players wanting that look. And let's be honest: the points and scrolls on an F-style mandolin are very artistic and reminiscent of an idealized past. They are classic looking. People just love the shape and the tradition behind it. A styles are popular because they are simple and elegant (not to mention cheaper, LOL).

    But that doesn't, of course, mean that other shapes can't be used. Previous examples in this thread illustrate that quite clearly. These new shapes just haven't caught on in the mandolin world because they aren't traditional. And quite frankly, I think most of them lack imagination. The electric guitar world has already gone through the weird shape phase, and was popularized by rock stars who wanted the freakiest-looking guitar (hey, I had both an Explorer and flying-V electric guitars in the '80s so I could look just like my Metallica heroes).

    The problem is, mandolin players by and large don't care for that. The type of music most associated with mandolin playing is traditional music, and most mandolin players want a traditional instrument. And I hate to say it like this, but I think it also has to do with the fact that mandolin players tend to be older and more mature than the hordes of teenage guitar players. Freaky shapes work for guitar because teens like a wild and crazy look to match their wild and crazy music. Older folks who play traditional music think it's just silly. (OK, there were lots of generalizations in there, but I think there's truth to it.) Not to mention the fact that electric guitar shapes don't affect acoustic sound, whereas mandolins are primarily acoustic instruments.

    If you want to create new and bizarre mandolin shapes, go for it! You'll have a very limited market, and a lot of people will frown on strange shapes, but you might just stumble on something that "clicks" with people. There's no way to know unless you try. Of course, you'll also have to do a lot of experimentation on how they sound, and tweak the design accordingly.

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  8. #30
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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Incidentally, while looking for the answer to the question, I ran across this:... The plainer of the two styles he called his "A" style - it has a simple round teardrop shape profile to the body and a simple plain peghead. His other fancier style he called his "F" - it has a fancy body profile with projecting points and scroll and the peghead is likewise of a fancy shape. [It is said that these designations were short for "Artist" and "Florentine", but the names are confusing because they have been applied by the Gibson Co. and other makers to various other styles of mandolins. The letter designations, A and F, have been more consistently applied to the styles described....
    Look, that has been around for years. It doesn't make sense that A stands for something and F stands for something but H, K, U, etc. don't. It was a guess on someone's part. There's no documentation from Orville that supports it. You're on the largest repository of mandolin information in the world. I hate seeing misinformation taken as fact. if anyone could ever prove that Orville named those style bodies those names I'd be ecstatic. Thus far there is no proof.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoplumb View Post
    I would be inclined to think Gibson just pulled the letters (and numbers) out of the air. There doesn't seem to be any method to their madness and to me that is typical of Gibson.
    Actually there was some method to Gibson's madness at times. The A and F style existed before the company by the way. The letters used after the company started fall into two camps. Those that are descriptive and those that are not. The A, F, H, K, L, U (these letters might have existed in Orville's work) don't describe anything I can see. On the other hand the GB, MB, RB, and TB designations do. Like any manufacturer you have to have a way of cataloging the items you sell. Gibson was just doing what companies did then. Using the alphabet as a designation works for a while until you create more than 26 products.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  11. #32
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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    You can make any design you can dream up. Whether it sounds good or not will likely depend on your sound chamber and how well your top vibrates (Disclaimer: I'm not a luthier).

    I tend to like different designs. I'm a fan of Rigel's offerings and would like to someday own a CT model, but I haven't stumbled onto one when I had the disposable funds yet, and I'm to a point where I pretty much refuse to buy without playing except in the rarest of situations, which is admittedly limiting. I own a pancake model, a Mandobird, and a National RM-1. Steve Sorensen and Max Girouard are making some awesome looking and sounding non-traditional mandolins. That said, I think the various fruit/food designs are cool, but can't imagine ever buying one. James Condino's Cricket model is very cool, and I probably would buy one of those if it sounded/played as good as it looked (they may well, I've never actually played one). I also like some of the unusual finishes (blue burst, green burst, and really like Weber's Black Ice).

    Bill Monroe set the standard with his F style Loar, and that style (and the scroll-less A style variation) are what sell the best. Mandolin is already a small niche market when compared to guitar, and "unique" designs shrink that market further. So, if you want to make a living building mandolins, there are definitely some considerations there. If you're building for fun, do whatever you'd like!

    Oh, and Roger Siminoff's book will likely answer many of your Questions regarding measurements, graduations, etc...
    Chuck

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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    There are a couple more shape variations to consider.

    Bandolim (Brazilian) and Gelas (France)

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  15. #34
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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    Post them as you find them. I just ran through what I remembered seeing. There are a few I can't find.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  16. #35

    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    Another thing to think about in creating a mandolin is what if it sounds lousy with the new configuration. You just spent months and hundreds hand carving something that is now essentially kindling.

  17. #36
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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    More variants:

    Howe-Orme Mandolinetto:
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    Hougaard Hardanger Mandolin:
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    Violaline - JTL:
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    Anchor Mandolin:
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    ?????
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    Viennese College of Music:
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    Another ????:
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    Lumpy:
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  19. #37

    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    Some of my oddballs. I stick with technical specs (carving thickness, scale, etc) moderately close to the standards, so I don't run much of a risk of things coming out sounding like wet mud. Has worked pretty well so far.

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    Thanks,

    Magnus

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  21. #38
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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    The more I see those 2 points, the more I want one. Though Magnus that first electric is very very cool
    Kala tenor ukulele, Mandobird, Godin A8, Dobro Mandolin, Gold Tone mandola, Gold Tone OM, S'oarsey mandocello, Gold Tone Irish tenor banjo, Gold Tone M bass, Taylor 214 CE Koa, La Patrie Concert CW, Fender Strat powered by Roland, Yamaha TRBX174 bass, Epiphone ES-339 with GK1

  22. #39
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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    I'll think that you'll find that the Breedlove K shape is named that because it's very similar to a mandolin shape used by a company that was in Chicago and built a similarly shaped mandolin. I could be wrong about that but the shape is pretty close and the name of that company was Kay.
    Nice idea, but the big man told me that the K designation was much more simple: K as in its my company and I'm Kim Breedlove! The shape origins come from a very similar ( and extremely uncomfortable) shaped guitar that they made at the time and that after hand carving over 200 traditional F5 scrolls for another manufacturer, he never wanted to carve a scroll again and needed a design that was easy to manufacture.

    Trying to build a nice mandolin is a completely different conversation from trying to manufacture them every day for a larger market utilizing other laborers. Once they are built, trying to sell them in a market that is for the most part very traditional is a whole different story.

  23. #40

    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    Quote Originally Posted by grandcanyonminstrel View Post
    Trying to build a nice mandolin is a completely different conversation from trying to manufacture them every day for a larger market utilizing other laborers. Once they are built, trying to sell them in a market that is for the most part very traditional is a whole different story.
    Indeed. If I was building with the intent to sell, I'd be doing As and Fs.

    Thanks,

    Magnus

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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    "
    If you want to create new and bizarre mandolin shapes, go for it! You'll have a very limited market, and a lot of people will frown on strange shapes, but you might just stumble on something that "clicks" with people. There's no way to know unless you try. Of course, you'll also have to do a lot of experimentation on how they sound, and tweak the design accordingly."

    I'm not interested in selling anything. It would be for fun. Anything I do I do for fun, no other reason. :-)
    Rogue A-style Mandolin
    Lyon and Healy Bowlback Mandolin
    Kala Soprano Ukulele
    Oscar Schmidt Mandriola

    ...so far...

  25. #42

    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    Speaking of oddballs: has the Giacomel already been shown? Might be conidered an F-style, but a heavily truncated one!
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  27. #43
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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Hello.

    If I was making one from scratch, could I use artistic license and make the body a different shape?
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  28. #44
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    Default Re: Shapes of mandolin bodies (and holes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus Geijer View Post
    Some of my oddballs. I stick with technical specs (carving thickness, scale, etc) moderately close to the standards, so I don't run much of a risk of things coming out sounding like wet mud. Has worked pretty well so far.

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    Thanks,

    Magnus
    Those are very cool. Nice work.
    ...

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