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Thread: Bluegrass Mandola

  1. #1
    Registered User Drew Egerton's Avatar
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    Default Bluegrass Mandola

    Hello everyone,

    I know this thread is to a rather limited audience, but I am hopeful for some input.
    I recently acquired an Eastman MDA815 mandola, and am having a good time noodling with it, though mandolin and guitar are my primary instruments.

    I know of a very few bluegrass tunes with prominent mandola such as John and Mary (Third Tyme Out) and My Love Will Not Change (Del McCoury Band).

    Other than these, I've been mostly playing songs I know on the mandolin and either letting them be in the wrong key since nobody is listening, or working on mentally transposing/repositioning it.


    What are some other tunes and songs in bluegrass that the mandola suits well? I'm looking at some point to use it in a band situation for a song or two as a change of pace. I'd like to know about songs that either were recorded featuring the mandola, or just ones that you have used it on with good results. Obviously it CAN be used on anything, but SHOULDN'T be necessarily!

    Thanks!
    Drew
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Shady Grove, as played by David Grisman on the mandola.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Laurie Lewis: Kiss Me Before I Die
    Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.

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    Purveyor of Sunshine sgarrity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Here's a few for ya:








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    Purveyor of Sunshine sgarrity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    One more:


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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    My favourite orchestral instrument is the Viola. I simply love the 'darker' tone they have over a Violin- likewise with a Mandola. Personally,i'd use a mandola in Bluegrass music in any tune i thought would suit it. The Bill Monroe / Peter Rowan song ''Walls of Time'' often begins with a tremolo intro.,i can imagine the sound of that played on a mandola with it's darker tones. I'd try every song/tune out that i knew to see 'what fits' - it's a wonderful instrument & i think sadly, it's a fairly neglected one,
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  12. #7
    Registered User Drew Egerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Some good songs there for sure. Thanks especially to Shaun for the video links.
    Shady Grove is a great place to start I think! It should fit will in Dm or Am. I like the version that I've heard from Tony Rice that changes keys back and forth. Keep the tunes coming!
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    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by pilotdrew View Post
    What are some other tunes and songs in bluegrass that the mandola suits well? I'm looking at some point to use it in a band situation for a song or two as a change of pace. I'd like to know about songs that either were recorded featuring the mandola, or just ones that you have used it on with good results. Obviously it CAN be used on anything, but SHOULDN'T be necessarily!
    Every tune I play on the mandolin or fiddle, I will try on the mandola. Some tunes just don't work in their original key or in mandolin fingering, due to the range of the mandola. At least, not without having to go way up on the A string, which doesn't sound that great on a mandola IMHO. The tunes I like best are the ones that take advantage of the low end. So I end up taking the high part of the tune and bringing it down an octave. Sometimes it sounds great, sometimes not so much. Sometimes it may be just one note I want to change or cheat to make it work better.

    There are plenty of exceptions, but usually tunes in C and G work great on the mandola. Tunes in D or A may work better by using a capo at the 2nd fret and playing them just like the D, A, and E strings of a mandolin (since you'd be capoing the C, G, and D strings to D, A, and E). Sometimes my wife and I take turns playing the exact same breaks or fiddle tunes in a mandolin high octave and a mandola low octave. Then play them together. And a lot of fun can be had playing a low-octave mandola melody with a high-octave harmony part on the mandolin.

    I've been on an Old-Time kick lately, so I'm not doing much straight bluegrass these days. But you can make mandola work on any tune. And there ain't no good reason you shouldn't try!

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    I saw Compton play that Mandola - he knows how to work it
    I have been playing Salt Creek and Cuckoos nest and Whiskey Before Breakfast with this group I'm in- on the mandola
    we have another mandolin player so I try to do mandola where I can
    I also play "Green Leaf Fancy" on mandola. I have worked up a fingering for Red Haired Boy as well.
    Not bluegrass, but I also prefer to play "Russian Lullaby" and the "Theme from the God Father" on mandola as the chord voicing( I use) is quite different from the mandolin, creating a rich sound with mandolin and guitar.
    I use it on "Dawg's Waltz" as well.
    "Tennessee Waltz" or anything in C works well on the mandola

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    I think the only reason that any song wouldn't sound good on a mandola would be the ability of the player. I know the reach is more so exact fingering like the mandolin may not work and would be more difficult to a mandolin player if it did. I'm not remarking on yours or anyones ability just saying that a mandola player could probably sound good on most songs, where a mandolin player that was holding a mandola could just pull it off on certain songs.

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobin View Post
    Every tune I play on the mandolin or fiddle, I will try on the mandola. Some tunes just don't work in their original key or in mandolin fingering, due to the range of the mandola. At least, not without having to go way up on the A string, which doesn't sound that great on a mandola IMHO. The tunes I like best are the ones that take advantage of the low end. So I end up taking the high part of the tune and bringing it down an octave. Sometimes it sounds great, sometimes not so much. Sometimes it may be just one note I want to change or cheat to make it work better.

    There are plenty of exceptions, but usually tunes in C and G work great on the mandola. Tunes in D or A may work better by using a capo at the 2nd fret and playing them just like the D, A, and E strings of a mandolin (since you'd be capoing the C, G, and D strings to D, A, and E). Sometimes my wife and I take turns playing the exact same breaks or fiddle tunes in a mandolin high octave and a mandola low octave. Then play them together. And a lot of fun can be had playing a low-octave mandola melody with a high-octave harmony part on the mandolin.

    I've been on an Old-Time kick lately, so I'm not doing much straight bluegrass these days. But you can make mandola work on any tune. And there ain't no good reason you shouldn't try!
    That is a great description, and pretty much my own approach. Speaking in the context of tunes/melodies (as opposed to Bluegress per se), I will play nearly every tune I play on mandolin AND mandola. After a while, one or the other instrument gets to be a favorite choice, but I can always alternate. Use of just one capo position (2nd fret) on mandola widens the options too.

    What I would recommend NOT doing is entrenching mandolin "TAB positions" for common tunes most people play, by playing them the same, string for string, on mandola - at least, don't do this if you plan to play with other people. Let the tunes find and play themselves where they fall on mandola, and they will. One helpful thing for me was to make an exercise of learning every possible mandolin melody I know in both low and high octaves - using some cheat or short-cut notes where needed. If you do this on your mandolin tunes, you are already essentially playing mandola.

    Tom Rozum (with Laurie Lewis) is a player who has used mandola regularly throughout their recordings.
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    John Reischman has done some very nice mandola on his album Walk Along John.

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    Purveyor of Sunshine sgarrity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Foss View Post
    John Reischman has done some very nice mandola on his album Walk Along John.
    Yes he did! Using a Smart A-style I believe. There's mandola on the Travellers recording too.

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by acousticphd View Post
    What I would recommend NOT doing is entrenching mandolin "TAB positions" for common tunes most people play, by playing them the same, string for string, on mandola - at least, don't do this if you plan to play with other people. Let the tunes find and play themselves where they fall on mandola, and they will. One helpful thing for me was to make an exercise of learning every possible mandolin melody I know in both low and high octaves - using some cheat or short-cut notes where needed. If you do this on your mandolin tunes, you are already essentially playing mandola.
    Yup, I agree. Playing mandolin tunes the exact same way on a mandola may be great when starting out, just to get a feel for the mandola, but it can lead to the bad habit of playing in the wrong key, and then being clueless on how to play the mandola in the correct key with others. One reason I have really enjoyed the mandola is that it has broadened my horizons with respect to transposing to different keys. Not only on the mandola (to actually get back to the correct key), but on other instruments as well. For folks who may still play "by the numbers" using tablature, this is a very good way to get more familiar with the intervals and relationships between strings/frets.

    The real downside of the mandola, for me anyway, is that playing in closed positions is a bit too difficult. The shorter scale of the mandolin lends itself easily to closed-position playing, but my small hands struggle with it on the mandola.

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    From Tobin - "... but it can lead to the bad habit of playing in the wrong key,..". Spot on !. Personally,i think that that's the very first thing to address when coming to a mandola from mandolin. You need to find the 'kick off' point for each key all over again & to re-learn where all the 'sounds' are on the fingerboard in each key - but isn't that the fun of it all ?. I remember seeing Peter Rowan over here many years ago playing a Gibson mandola, & i thought that it sounded wonderful. A terrific instrument & IMHO,sadly under used in Bluegrass music,
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Yes Ivan, at one point Peter Rowan was hauling around a Loar signed H-5 mandola that was either lost or stolen in Italy. There must be a fair amount of recorded mandola music by Peter.

    I can't claim to have a lot of experience playing mandola in a bluegrass setting. I have played my Duff H-5 (w/Virzi) a few times at our Sat. afternoon folk rock Americana jam. Our lead guitarist complained that it steps all over the sweet spot frequencies of the acoustic guitars and he preferred playing with a mandolin player. We haven't spent much time trying to figure out how to make it work which I'm sure can be done. It is even tougher playing with 2 or 3 guitarists.

    Len B.
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by lenf12 View Post
    ...I have played my Duff H-5 (w/Virzi) a few times at our Sat. afternoon folk rock Americana jam. Our lead guitarist complained that it steps all over the sweet spot frequencies of the acoustic guitars and he preferred playing with a mandolin player...It is even tougher playing with 2 or 3 guitarists...
    ...Especially ones that don't recognize that the different timbre and playing techniques of a mandolin-family instrument distinguish it clearly from guitars, even when playing in the same range. The possibilities of harmonic cooperation between a mandola and a guitar are quite exciting, IMHO. I'd keep bringing the mandola, try it on songs that call for a "darker" sound, and see if you can't convince the others that it has a role.
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    I have played mandola on Old Dangerfield with a group along with Lonesome Moonlight Waltz.
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    ...Especially ones that don't recognize that the different timbre and playing techniques of a mandolin-family instrument distinguish it clearly from guitars, even when playing in the same range. The possibilities of harmonic cooperation between a mandola and a guitar are quite exciting, IMHO. I'd keep bringing the mandola, try it on songs that call for a "darker" sound, and see if you can't convince the others that it has a role.
    These guitar guys have very little to zero mandolin family playing experience so timbre and technique are off their radar screens. With them (mainly the lead guitarist), it boils down to mandola frequencies overlapping guitar frequencies and having to work to stay out of each others way. I'll keep bringing it on occasion when I know we'll be playing acoustically but we do play amplified acoustic and often fully electric instruments where my mandola definitely does not have a role. Sorry if I've strayed away from the mandola's role in bluegrass music.

    Len B.
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Len, you are right. There is a fight with the guitars to fit in. It's like having a 6 string bass fighting the guitar player for space when perhaps playing jazz tunes........we had a little meltdown one time between the bass player and one of the guitar players over one stepping on the other's "space".
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    ..

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandobar View Post
    Len, you are right. There is a fight with the guitars to fit in. It's like having a 6 string bass fighting the guitar player for space when perhaps playing jazz tunes........we had a little meltdown one time between the bass player and one of the guitar players over one stepping on the other's "space".
    So each instrument has to have fiercely defended "sonic turf," a part of the tonal range where only guitars, or only the bass, or only mandolins, are allowed to go?

    Seems weird to me. In bluegrass, the ranges of the banjo and the guitar overlap, but because each instrument has a distinctive timbre, no one says, "Stay outta that octave, Clem, that's mine!" Fiddle and mandolin share the exact same range, but because they're different-sounding instruments, they can coexist -- even "duet" with each other. The Dobro resonator guitar is, well, a guitar, but it doesn't detract from the "standard" guitar... I could go on and on, and probably have already.

    IMHO being territorial about your "space" earmarks an unimaginative musician who doesn't see possibilities for cooperation and collaboration. We should all play with taste, watch our volume, don't play over each other's solos, fit our personal skills and preferences into a good ensemble sound. Does that mean not playing in the same range as another instrument? How do alto saxes and trumpets play in horn sections, then?
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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Allenhopkins has it exactly right, if the mandola bothers him he needs to find a jam where he's the only guitar, good luck with that

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    I'm new to mandola having just bought a Collings MT. Forgive me if this is stupid but how would you begin in arranging a mandolin piece for mandola without playing it like a mandolin. Another way to ask: how would you go about for instance, taking a mandolin tablature and turning it into a mandola piece without playing the same notes and having to make that trip way up the A string? thanks

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    Default Re: Bluegrass Mandola

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Bryant View Post
    I'm new to mandola having just bought a Collings MT. Forgive me if this is stupid but how would you begin in arranging a mandolin piece for mandola without playing it like a mandolin. Another way to ask: how would you go about for instance, taking a mandolin tablature and turning it into a mandola piece without playing the same notes and having to make that trip way up the A string? thanks
    It really depends on the tune you're playing. The answer is not the same for every tune or every key. And to be honest, some tunes and some keys just don't fit very well on the mandola unless you want to make that trip way up the A string.

    I do think a capo can be a valuable tool for mandola players. When playing in the key of D, for example, a lot of tunes can be played an octave lower than the mandolin plays them, and they can be played in open position on the mandola by using the capo at the 2nd fret. You just have to transpose it to a new fingering, as I described previously in this thread, like playing it in a different key than you would on the mandolin.

    But again, it may not work with every tune or every key. I often find that if I play a piece on the mandola an octave lower than I would play it on the mandolin, I run out of bass string. So I may have to jump up an octave to play the low notes. When it comes to high notes on the A string that you need to reach that are normally in the mandolin's E string territory, you just need to figure out where in the music it's convenient to shift up to 2nd or 3rd position, and play that phrase in the higher position before coming back down. That's easier than playing everything out of open position and then trying to reach one single high note.

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