Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456
Results 126 to 146 of 146

Thread: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

  1. #126
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Invergordon,Scotland
    Posts
    2,277

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    On that latter point, I don't think it matters what people think about it in the context of Irish or Scottish pub sessions, because the majority of tunes will be at dance tempos where tremolo would be redundant (or impossible) anyway.
    Yes, perhaps the majority of tunes will be. But we do slow tunes in the pub sometimes, and sometimes the place will indeed quieten down for them. And then how you play is important.
    David A. Gordon

  2. #127

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bren View Post
    ...got sidetracked watching Van Morrison and Bob Dylan, which i hadn't seen before..
    Be sure and check out the rest of the doc - great John Lee Hooker segment.

    But I'm always moved by that rendition of "One Irish Rover."

    ...Anyway, i never knew tremolo was frowned on until i read it on The Session...
    For my part, I haven't noticed (nor promulgated) such ecumenism - I'm just playing my airs and pibrochs at home - not expecting anyone to pipe down for it!

  3. #128
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Aberdeen, Scotland
    Posts
    466

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    But we do slow tunes in the pub sometimes, and sometimes the place will indeed quieten down for them.
    Sometimes. Often they won't, so a good strong tremolo helps establish a melody line that everyone else can hear. I like to play waltzes in sessions ...forgive me.


    I'm always moved by that rendition of "One Irish Rover."
    You kind of forget that singular artists like those two, that don't talk to the media (or their audiences) much, do actually meet up and play together at times. Nice to see that Dylan was familiar with Morrison's song. The work they create stands so apart that one doesn't always think of them mixing like that.
    Bren

  4. #129
    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    4,941

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bren View Post
    Sometimes. Often they won't, so a good strong tremolo helps establish a melody line that everyone else can hear. I like to play waltzes in sessions ...forgive me.
    Waltzes in sessions are great. I like playing the "Far Away" tune, which is often referred to as an Irish Waltz, whatever that is, and often comes up in local sessions. Here's a sample of me playing it:

    http://ptjams.com/string14/audio/str...e_far_away.mp3

    "Hector the Hero" is usually played in 3/4 waltz time, at least in the local sessions. What Dagger is playing on that waltz video isn't tremolo. Or maybe we understand the term differently. I think some of us are talking past each other here.

    Do you know what a slow air is? What the term "rubato" means? Here's a sample below (and I think I linked this tune earlier).




    Do you think this is a good candidate for Italian-style mandolin tremolo?

    I hear this kind of thing in local sessions, usually started by a fiddler or piper. Everyone else sits out, and then joins in when the next tune in the set is a march or dance tune. And there is a lot of crossover (IMO) between this and the slower tunes that are played in sessions.

    Past a certain point in slow tunes and non-metered playing, I give up trying to follow on a plucked instrument with short sustain like mandolin and just listen, enjoying someone else playing the tune. Your mileage may vary, and I know that every session is different.

  5. The following members say thank you to foldedpath for this post:


  6. #130

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Beautiful. I love the pipes.

    Ya there are some instruments that you just want to hear 'em and that's it.

    So, can someone say? I'd read it was the wire strung first before the pipes - considering all of the Isles - and the music then went the pipes in a fashion that began with the harp? I may have that reversed but i dont think so. I'm familiar with the history since about 1600, but prior?

  7. #131
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Invergordon,Scotland
    Posts
    2,277

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    [QUOTE=foldedpath; What Dagger is playing on that waltz video isn't tremolo. Or maybe we understand the term differently. I think some of us are talking past each other here.[/QUOTE]

    It's certainly not tremolo in the Italian sense, but at the same time it's not just single notes either.
    As I say, it seems to me to be a sort of 'slow tremolo'. But it may not be tremolo at all, depending how you understand the term.

    For what it's worth, I've always played a bit like that. Actually some of my early playing was influenced by the clarsach, and on my Highland Mandolin album (1988) I had a version of Archibald MacDonald of Keppoch with Katie Harrigan on harp, which I thought sounded nice.
    David A. Gordon

  8. The following members say thank you to Dagger Gordon for this post:


  9. #132
    Mandolin Botherer Shelagh Moore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Leicestershire, UK
    Posts
    1,378

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Anyway, i never knew tremolo was frowned on until i read it on The Session.
    Some of us pre-date that self-appointed arbiter of all that is correct in ITM/traditional music.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Shelagh Moore For This Useful Post:


  11. #133
    Registered User Bad Monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    178

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Moore View Post
    Some of us pre-date that self-appointed arbiter of all that is correct in ITM/traditional music.
    As does the music itself It may just be me,but some of those guys that hang out on the session forum seem to take themselves a wee bit serious sometimes.
    FWiW I remember my great-grandfather using a bit of tremolo now and then while playing tenor banjo. It was the 60's and I was a "wee biter" sitting on the kitchen floor trying to play along on a Monkey Ward mandolin that was strung up with only four strings. Hey, I was 4 and they wanted to play was well as tune my instrument. I remember that I couldn't get any kind of tremolo going at all so my great-grandfather showed me how a couple of triplets (like you're playing a jig) could fit rhythmically into a melody with my grandfathers' fiddle line and "keep the note going". The rhythm was the thing for him, it was important to make sense with the rest of the tune, you didn't just bang away as fast as you could.
    Now this was tunes played with family by Scots with brogues so thick you could walk on it, so may not be strict I-trad. If anyone ever said "OOO I love Irish music" he would lay it on thick with "we're Scots, we play Scottish tunes by definition" and all that kind of stuff. LOL once I did hear him say that the difference between Scottish and Irish tunes were the Scots could sing when they weren't drinking.

    anyway, I guess my point is that a guy that learned to play trad music in Scotland pre WW1 used a bit of tremolo so we can add that to the mix. I can't say when or why he started using it other than "you can keep the note going".


    ed for spelling

  12. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Bad Monkey For This Useful Post:


  13. #134

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    As you say - a bit of tremolo - different likely than the drenching "Italian-style' approach. For me, an effective tremolo (in a trad air, e.g.) is - rather than the unremitting barrage to emulate a sustaining instrument - yet another opportunistic device to impart texture, shade, volume/tonal dynamics -


    Here's one of those approaches of lending different (trad Chinese) instruments to 'Western trad.' As with mandolin, tremolo on guzheng is a prolific technique. Notice the dynamics achieved - rising/falling, pulsing, etc:


  14. The following members say thank you to catmandu2 for this post:


  15. #135

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Listen to what Enda Scahill does with tremolo--both on mandolin and tenor banjo. He occasionally takes the standard triplet and extends it into tremolo passages on jigs, reels, hornpipes, and even on old-time tunes. It's flashy, maybe over-the-top for some tastes--but it's certainly a legit choice.

  16. #136

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Here is a tune played on cittern with tremolo technique adapted from the Spanish guitar. I spent years practicing "Recuerdos de la Alhambra." Then I heard the Irish classical guitarist John Feeley do something like this with the Carolan tune "Blind Mary," and nicked it for a cittern arrangement:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Eedhoctqg

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jdsobol For This Useful Post:


  18. #137

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Of all the various tremolo techniques of all the instruments in all the musics of the world, I would think that some variation in deployment - in our case here ITM - would inevitability result, particularly in 'fingerstyle' approaches. I mentioned that more haphazardly earlier on the thread - thinking then of charango and santoor approaches specifically. With our ever increasing 'polyphonic' melding of music, players, style, instruments et al, I suppose it's reasonable that crossfertilization of technical elements like tremolo will ensue.

    *Fwiw, as a cl/fl guitarist long before i ever got into ITM, i've done my share of dabbling with the fingerstyle trem (which I also do on chrngo) approach on cittern. But I'm generally unimpressed with my particular results (I went to other instruments for sustain! ).
    Last edited by catmandu2; Mar-27-2017 at 3:42pm.

  19. #138
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Invergordon,Scotland
    Posts
    2,277

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    It really is a case of different strokes for different folks, and unlike Italian (or indeed Croatian and many other traditions) there is not (yet?) a hard and fast expectation about tremolo in Irish mandolin.

    On the other hand there is certainly an expectation of triplets in Irish tenor banjo playing, and many Irish mandolin players will in fact be mainly banjo players. It seems to me that if you are able to play good banjo triplets, then that technique of very quick right hand movement (unless you're left-handed) would be bound to serve you well if you wanted to do tremolo, so I am surprised that you don't hear it more.

    Unless of course you just don't like it, which I guess is what this thread is all about.
    David A. Gordon

  20. #139
    Registered User John Kelly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ardnadam, Argyll, Scotland
    Posts
    1,463

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Tired to access your video, but getting a message saying it is not available! Has it been taken down? Othere videos opening as expected.
    I'm playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order. - Eric Morecambe

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOldBores

  21. #140

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Getting so many good tune ideas from this thread

  22. #141

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Nicely played, Dagger. There's a video of Monica Huggett talking about vibrato in Baroque music where she says "It's ridiculous to think of people in the 17th century saying 'I mustn't do vibrato!'" Same for tremolo - in any music, really. If it works and serves the piece, have at it.

  23. The following members say thank you to billkilpatrick for this post:


  24. #142
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Invergordon,Scotland
    Posts
    2,277

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    I feel we should take note of this extremely beautiful Irish air as played by Simon Mayor.
    He uses a variety of techniques,including a wee burst of tremolo at around 1.15. Exemplary playing, in my view.


    David A. Gordon

  25. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Dagger Gordon For This Useful Post:


  26. #143
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Cape Cod, MA
    Posts
    175

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    One of my favorite Irish airs is "My Lagan Love." I love the melody (played in C) and when I play it I play it straight the first time through with no tremolo. On the second time I tremolo the long notes, and it's a really nice effect. Tremolo isn't only for playing long notes, but it can also be an expressive texture when used judiciously. I play this tune slowly and the tremolo on the second time through adds some emotion to it. I usually play it solo, so the long sustained un-tremoloed notes in the first run ring, even though the mandolin doesn't sustain that well, but adding tremolo later makes a difference.

    Jack

  27. The following members say thank you to JCook for this post:


  28. #144

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Simon is playing ' The Lark in the Clear Air ' absolutely beautiful.

    Dave H
    Eastman 615 mandolin
    Eastman 615 mandola
    2011 Weber Bitteroot A5
    2012 Weber Bitteroot F5
    Eastman MD 915V
    Gibson F9
    2016 Capek ' Bob ' standard scale tenor banjo
    Ibanez Artist 5 string
    2001 Paul Shippey oval hole

  29. #145

    Default Re: Tremolo for Irish Trad?

    Interesting - voice-leading and varied arpeggios.. Great example of creativity in overcoming the instrument's limitations - wringing out sustain and dynamics from a highly percussive instrument (without resorting to trem).

  30. #146

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •