Preamp/DI for Mandolin

[junglejem]

Got a Collings MF with a K&K pickup inside. Looking for a tasty preamp/DI to go between the mandolin and the mixing board. Any recommendations? A mute switch would be very helpful, as I switch instruments during the set. The main consideration is EQ and tone shaping/control. Effects are nice but not necessary...got reverb on the PA mixer which is sufficient.

Lets say, for the sake of argument, that price is not a major concern. I've looked at $99 K&K preamps and $400 AER DIs. I just want to get it right. My two acoustic guitars are running through a Henriksen Bud 2 channel amp, into the PA.

What has worked and/or is working for you folks?

[RichardF]

I haven't got a tasty one but I use the Ashdown Pre Amp DI pedal which just works, and a Planet Waves muting lead. The Ashdown has treble, bass, a mid/feedback sweep with in and out volume controls. It works really well with no fuss and no real need to use the EQ settings at all, just the feedback sweep control, on the Fishman equipped Breedlove Mandolin or the Takamine guitar.

[Freddyfingers]

I have had the K and K pure preamp for two weeks now. Although it doesn't have the mute switch you are looking for, I believe it has a good sound. I have a loar 600 with K and K internal pickups and it's not hard to dial in a sound. I used to plug it in directly to a Bose tone match as the first three channels have a built in preamp , but I added another singer and was left with the fourth channel that has no pre. The pure pre was easy to dial in and made some sounds come out of it that the Bose missed. With a belt clip I can easily lower the volume before unplugging or switching. I even used it on a inexpensive baritone I have. The pickups it comes with are not balanced well. The bass is overpowering. With the pure peri was able to tame it. For 99 I think it's a good buy. I did not have a chance to try higher end models as none of the local stores carry them.

[pops1]

An Orchid preamp will have treble, bass mid, volume and mute. It is only phantom powered but it also mounts to a mic stand it that is convenient for you. Used one for years, now using a Fireye as it has a boost, works so well I really don't need the boost, but not much for tone shaping.

[Richard.g.hampton]

I have a K & K pickup in my Gilchrist and run it through a Radial Tonebone on those occasions that I need to DI. The results have been very good - particularly when there's someone working the mix who knows what (s)he's doing. The Tonebone is flexible and fairly idiot-proof - good thing in my case - and seems to get as close to an acoustic sound as one can reasonably hope for.

All the best

[John Flynn]

I have a Rigel with it's stock pizeo and a Mendel OM with a K&K Twin. When I plug in, I use a Red-Eye Twin, which I'm very satisfied with. It's simple, compact, rugged and has a great sound.

[almeriastrings]

How much EQ you might need on the preamp/DI very much depends on how good the channel EQ is on the main mixer. If the channel EQ is not up to much, then you might need fairly extensive EQ on the external preamp or DI. If you have good channel EQ then any really good, clean DI box with an impedance of 1M or more and high input headroom might be all you need. Example:

http://www.radialeng.com/stagebugsb4.php

Any EQ is then done at the desk.

I would add that if the channel EQ is OK, it is best to use that and not to 'stack' EQ modules as this is a major cause of phase linearity problems.

[mandroid]

NB: preamps boost to line level (1/4" output)..
DI is to make your output compatible to microphone inputs.. Via XLR cables.

not the same .. though Baggs PA-DI puts both in the same box & includes a Parametric tone control too and has 2 separate outputs for each function.

http://www.lrbaggs.com/preamps/para-di-acoustic-preamp

[almeriastrings]

NB: preamps boost to line level (1/4" output)..
DI is to make your output compatible to microphone inputs.. Via XLR cables.

Correct... yes... however... if EQ circuits are included, there will have to be a preamp stage before those to act as an impedance buffer and to raise the signal level for the EQ stage. Hence, many get labeled as Preamp/DI's (Baggs Para DI, Headway EDB-2 or Radial Tonebone, etc.). Most of these will have two outputs. One on 1/4" jack and line level and an XLR at 'mic' level.

[mandroid]

10 mega ohm levels ? Interesting observation about Piezo disc size with its higher output affecting Quacky clipping..


more gear than work playing it ..

[almeriastrings]

There are ultra-high impedance active DI's with very high headroom inputs.... Triton Audio Bigamp Piezo, for example.







http://tritonaudio.com/index.php?opt...d=14&Itemid=32

These are pretty neat.. very compact.

[BrianWilliam]

I use a LR Baggs venue. It's got a mute/tuner, boost, and a bunch of knobs.

[Ed Goist]

Got a Collings MF with a K&K pickup inside. Looking for a tasty preamp/DI to go between the mandolin and the mixing board. Any recommendations? A mute switch would be very helpful, as I switch instruments during the set. The main consideration is EQ and tone shaping/control. Effects are nice but not necessary...got reverb on the PA mixer which is sufficient.

Lets say, for the sake of argument, that price is not a major concern. I've looked at $99 K&K preamps and $400 AER DIs. I just want to get it right. My two acoustic guitars are running through a Henriksen Bud 2 channel amp, into the PA.

What has worked and/or is working for you folks?

I have a Rigel with it's stock pizeo and a Mendel OM with a K&K Twin. When I plug in, I use a Red-Eye Twin, which I'm very satisfied with. It's simple, compact, rugged and has a great sound.

+1 on Red-Eye.

I'd recommend the Fire-Eye Red-Eye (single channel) with the stomp box tuner pedal of your choice run through the effects loop of the Red-Eye to give you the mute capability. Your guitars will also sound fantastic through this set-up.

Lots of good options out there though. Good luck, and let us know what you decide on.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

The Fireye-Redeye and a boss tuner for muting and tuning is a great combo although it has limited EQ. Simple, good sound, very functional and sturdy.

The Baggs Venue is awesome, has all the bells and whistles including mute, tuner, adjustable Boost, more robust EQ functionality, etc... It's a little expensive but its a great all in 1 tool.

[junglejem]

Maybe massive amounts of EQ aren't all that crucial...just for giggles yesterday I plugged the K&K-equipped Collings into my Phil Jones Bass Double Four amp, boosted the high end a bit, dropped the low end slightly, and got a very usable, woody tone. A little "boxey" for lack of a better term, but I'd be interested to see how it sounds through the PA. The amp is about the size of a shoe box, so its a little larger than a preamp/DI, but I'm wondering if I can save myself some money and go with this as my stage rig. And it has a toggle switch to mute the signal.

[mandowilli]

I have a Collings MF2 with a K&K pickup going through a Tonebone PreZ and I only use the EQ settings to remove the thumping low end sound and honk, if you will, produced by the mandolin.

Being semi parametric it allows you to remove these without shelving out other frequencies that you want to hang on to. On the mixer I keep it flat.

[Astro]

I've gone round about on this. I have something similar to the K&K twin (JJB) mounted on the surface. I now just plug straight into the mixer and cut the trebles and then out to the QSC powered speaker. Sounds fine for the band mix and a lot less trouble.

[Mandobart]

Repeating a lot of what others and I have said in the past. What works for me in a wide range of instruments from violin to upright bass:
1. JJB twin head internally mounted. 1/4" out to my Carvin AG300 with the high Z selected.
2. (for everything but bass) If I'm not bringing the Carvin and using a PA - JJB twin head internally mounted. 1/4" out to my Redeye, with a Korg DT10 tuner pedal/mute. XLR out to the PA.

[Tim Griffin]

I vote for the Red Eye. Cleanest sound I have heard.

[pops1]

The Red Eye has about the most headroom, and a treble control and seems to be all I need to get to the P.A. I got it for the boost, but don't use it. Since I do use phantom power I carry a 1/4" plug with me and plug it into the aux out and it mutes the signal so I can unplug and not bother the phantom or have any sound problems on a break.

[almeriastrings]

The Red Eye has about the most headroom.

1 volt, peak-to-peak (+ 2.2dBu)

The DI box with the highest headroom I am aware of is actually the ORCHID range, these have a truly massive headroom of +16dBu (5v!) They also have a ruler flat response from 15Hz to 50kHz and (like the Red-Eye) introduce a signal loss to the order of around 10dB. Input impedance is the same as the Red-Eye (1M).

By contrast, the well respected Radial JDI begins to clip at +3dBU (without the pad engaged).

Both the Red-Eye and the Orchid do sound very good, and I suspect the high headroom is a key factor in this, as the impedance is otherwise nothing special in either case.

[oldwave]

My Summit audio Td 100 tube direct box has +23 dBu headroom and a variable impedance go 10k to 2 M Ohms. If you need massive head room. its not cheap and needs ac power, but a lovely piece of gear. I sue it on a variety of instruments, from electric base to K&K pickups.
A little less head rom fro his inputs is the Summit 2BA221 a very flexible piece the has microphone input , line level input and Hiz at 16dBu, plus you can use the line/hiz at the same tine as the mic input with separate levels. One of my favorite pieces of gear, I mix the line level input from a wireless recover with a subminiature mic. Its is not a DI however and outputs at line level. I just run a line level cable into the Behringer wireless mixer, it sounds better than the hiz inputs built into it, but they aren't bad either.

Great equipment, but a bit price though the Td100's can be gotten used fro decent prices.