Adjusting the action on my new (old) Weymann Banjo Mandolin

[dmac]

I just got a wonderful Weymann Banjo Mandolin, with the friction fit wooden resonator and without the metal action adjuster. it's serial number is 20439, which seems rather early.

When I tune up the strings, the action gets pretty high, so I'm thinking there is too much give somewhere in the neck and I need to do something to reposition the neck in a flatter position.

Any clues about how I should proceed (other than take it to a luthier)?

[dmac]

Here are some pix:

You can see the neck lifting off the body in the second last picture. Let me know if any other views would be helpful. Thanks!

[pops1]

Looks like you are missing the piece that holds the neck to the pot so it would change easily. Remember it is a banjo and don't use mandolin strings, I use two sets of tenor banjo strings. I think you can get the parts you need from StuMac, or Edlerly.

[dmac]

Looks like you are missing the piece that holds the neck to the pot so it would change easily. Remember it is a banjo and don't use mandolin strings, I use two sets of tenor banjo strings. I think you can get the parts you need from StuMac, or Edlerly.

I don't think it ever came with one - there are no holes or gaps where any additional hardware would fit.

[pops1]

Is there a hole in the dowel stick that is not from top to bottom, but from side to side about 1/2 to 1" from where it goes thru the pot on the neck side.

[dmac]

If the dowel stick is the square profile piece of wood that goes from the neck to the opposite of the wooden ring, then no - there are no holes on any of the four sides of that stick anywhere inside the ring.

Is there a hole in the dowel stick that is not from top to bottom, but from side to side about 1/2 to 1" from where it goes thru the pot on the neck side.

[pops1]

Can you post a shot of the inside looking where the neck comes to the pot. The heel of the neck should be touching the pot, in the 4th pic yours is not. Have you taken the neck off, see it the dowel stick (the square piece going from the neck the the other end of the pot) is tight in the neck or is there movement.

[dmac]

Can you post a shot of the inside looking where the neck comes to the pot.

Here's a couple. I'm also including a closeup of a hole I found on the pot underneath the tailpiece.

Also - I haven't removed the neck myself. I bought the instrument before the dealer had a chance to do the setup, since the store was closing in 5 minutes and I got a discount if I took it as is. The neck is perfectly straight - it just has way too high action because of the angle it takes with the pot when I take the strings up to pitch. The other thing I have to do to make it playable is to put some string grooves in the bridge - they're all over the place right now.

[pops1]

In some of these instruments the two holes would screw into the heel of the neck meaning your neck is on backwards, but in this case it doesn't look like the square hole for the dowel stick goes thru at the tailpiece side, they usually don't, which would indicate your neck is on correctly. What i was looking for was the opposite end, I don't suppose there are two more holes at the other end. If i were you i would take the neck off, it's easy just unscrew the tailpiece and remove it and then unscrew the part it went thru and the neck should come off. Are there two holes at the end of the heel? My guess is there is.

[dmac]

Before I do all that - what will either finding mean? If there are holes in the end where the post goes into the pot opposite the neck, what do I do to lower the action? And if there are no holes in the end where the post goes into the pot opposite the neck, what do I do to lower the action?

Taking the neck off is a lot of work and I want to be sure I understand what to do next. Thank you for all your help, by the way! :-)

I see that there are two unused holes in the pot inner wall where the post goes into the pot wall opposite the neck (that is, at the tailpiece side of the pot). I wonder what went there?

[WW52]

You need to get some dowel stick hardware. My guess about the two little holes is that's where somebody screwed a little metal plate to the inside of the rim for the dowel neck brace screw to rest against so it wouldn't dig into the rim.
Here's a link for the dowel hardware.

That should anchor the heel solidly to the rim. Whether or not the heel and dowel were originally set at a playable angle, or the neck has pulled up, is a different issue.

[ProfChris]

Those two holes are inside at the point where the neck joins the pot, right? I can see on the pot wall the shadow of a bracket, curved at the top, which I guess pulled the dowel stick down in its slot against string tension. This would be fine adjustment. A simple wood bracket with slots to alliw it to slide up and down should work.

Coarse adjustment would be at the other end of the dowel stick - pops1 suggests there might be another hole in the tailpiece end of the dowel stick so it can be attached at a more favourable angle, and if not you could drill one.

[pops1]

Just looking at the pic's again, the middle pic of the second set. If that is of the neck side then it looks like there was something there. It also looks like screws would go into the heel. The heel needs to be tight against the pot or the action will suffer. Take a little stiff wire and poke thru the holes and see how far they go, put a screw in both holes that is near that depth. Be sure to hold the neck against the pot when measuring and while putting in the screws.

[ProfChris]

Before I do all that - what will either finding mean? If there are holes in the end where the post goes into the pot opposite the neck, what do I do to lower the action? And if there are no holes in the end where the post goes into the pot opposite the neck, what do I do to lower the action?

Taking the neck off is a lot of work and I want to be sure I understand what to do next. Thank you for all your help, by the way! :-)

I see that there are two unused holes in the pot inner wall where the post goes into the pot wall opposite the neck (that is, at the tailpiece side of the pot). I wonder what went there?

It looks as if the tail end of the dowel stick is secured by a single screw (holding on one of the tone hooks). Slacken strings, remove this screw, move end of dowel stick towards head until action is acceptable, use a nail to mark end of dowel stick, drill new hole, reinsert screw. But this will go best if the heel end of the stick is at the base of its hole (a wooden wedge would achieve this.

From there you could raise the action by removing the wedge, or lower it by sanding the feet of the bridge. Better, you could make a wooden adjuster as I suggest earlier.

Best, find a way to pull the heel against the pot, then adjust as above.

[mandomentch]

I see that there are two unused holes in the pot inner wall where the post goes into the pot wall opposite the neck (that is, at the tailpiece side of the pot). I wonder what went there?

It looks to me like it might have been equipped with hardware of the sort used on this Weymann banjo mandolin

[pops1]

It looks to me like it might have been equipped with hardware of the sort used on this Weymann banjo mandolin

OP said there were no holes in the dowel and that is something S.S. Stewart used also. It would mean there would be holes in the heel and the dowel where there are none. I like this contraption, have one on a Stewart neck and it works well.

[ProfChris]

It looks to me like it might have been equipped with hardware of the sort used on this Weymann banjo mandolin

Don't think so because there would be screw holes in the base of the heel and the centre of the dowel stick. I found some other Weymann pictures without that hardware, but none showed clearly the hardware at the heel end.

[dmac]

You hit the nail on the head, so to speak! Those two holes go into the heel of the neck deep: 1.25 inches! Zowee. I will find something the right size and tighten them up when I put on the tenor banjo strings I ordered from Elderly (I can wait a few days and that way do all the work at once). While I have the neck off, I'll look for other holes and/or signs of improper assembly, but I think a couple of screws locking the heel of the neck to the bottom edge of the pot would be all I need with the lighter strings. Fingers crossed.

Thanks everybody for your helpful and perceptive comments.

Just looking at the pic's again, the middle pic of the second set. If that is of the neck side then it looks like there was something there. It also looks like screws would go into the heel. The heel needs to be tight against the pot or the action will suffer. Take a little stiff wire and poke thru the holes and see how far they go, put a screw in both holes that is near that depth. Be sure to hold the neck against the pot when measuring and while putting in the screws.

[Brian Evans]

The Stew-Mac catalog shows a banjo bolt for that use, it is a lag screw that goes into the neck with a fine machine thread on the other end that gets a nut and washer for inside the pot. Way better than just a screw into the neck wood. You may need to repair the holes in the neck, glue some hardwood in and re-drill, etc.

[dmac]

This one? http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_..._Hardware.html

I don't have a big enough heel in the neck to use that screw - it is 2 1/2" long and I only have 2 3/8" to the point of the heel, and less to either side of it because of it's curvature. I understand that some of the screw would be sticking out inside the pot for the brass hex nut to go on, but it might still be too long. The holes are 1 1/4" deep, so I'll look for something around that size.

The Stew-Mac catalog shows a banjo bolt for that use, it is a lag screw that goes into the neck with a fine machine thread on the other end that gets a nut and washer for inside the pot. ...

[pops1]

While the Stu Mac screw could work, you can see the indentations in the pot from a normal beveled screw and I have seen many of these old banjos and that's what they used. If you want it to be more correct use a slot head screw and not a phillips as they weren't invented yet.

[Jim Adwell]

The StewMac "banjo bolts" are actually hanger bolts. You can get them in various sizes at a hardware store.

Here's the selection from Home Depot, for example:

http://www.homedepot.com/s/hanger%2520bolt?NCNI-5

I suggest going to a hardware store and measuring the actual length of the screw end that goes into the wood to see if it will work for you.