visiting Austin in January--Collings and Pava A models

[Mark Miller]

After my experience with the Eastman 515 blowing away my 305 in volume, high end, and playability, but being inferior in tone (lacking that woody, hollow sound), I've been reading around here and am intrigued by the Collings MT and the Pava A models. I have to stay under 3k, no matter what. It seems from what I'm reading here that until you get up around 2k, it's tough to get the combo of woody tone, strong high end, and playability. I have no attachment to the scroll, I even kind of prefer the look of the A mandolin, as long as it has F holes.

I'll be in Austin for a conference in early January, and sadly won't have time to go to the Collings and Ellis shops, but will have time to sneak off to Fiddler's Green and try out some mandos. I'm not in a hurry. I will be in Kalamazoo, MI in March for another conference and will have time to sneak off to Elderly Instruments then too (and maybe even the Northfield shop). At both places I plan to play everything between about 1500 and 2800. But right now I'm in the "endless navel gazing and obsessive reading on the Internet" stage, and would welcome anyone's thoughts about those mandolins or anything else in the range I'm looking at. Thanks!

Ps. I guess there's the Northfield M too, which is just under 2k, but doesn't seem to be available except by order

[samlyman]

If you want the deal of a lifetime checkout the Collings MT2V on ebay for $2,800. These list for $5,400 and are rarely seen used for under $3,500. I have owned MTs, MT2s and MT2Vs. All were very good but the varnished ones were head and shoulders above the others. I know I am biased as my favorite mando at home is a 2005 MT2V.

[Jerry Hutchison]

Mark,
I play a Northfields F5S that I love, and I live in Oak Park. You're welcome to come by and play it. Not sure how to do a PM on this site, but you can email me (jerry@drhutch.net) with your contact info and I will get back to you.
Jerry Hutchison

[Mark Miller]

Thanks Jerry! You're welcome to play my Eastman 305 too .

[renoyd]

For woodier tone, you might find the Pava has that particular character over the Collings, but if you are making the trek to FG, take the time to sit down a try everything on the walls. (One of the few places existing that you can do this in a zero pressure, relaxed setting). You can compare to the Eastmans there to lots of nice instruments including Kentucky KM-1000's, etc. Don't overlook the used items, there are sometimes some great finds there, including those within your budget. Last time I was there, there was an exceptional Poe, can't remember the price point - you don't see such instruments too often.

[pheffernan]

I prefer the darker tone of the Pava but the playability of the Collings. Were I to recommend an alternative, I'd suggest a Passernig which seems to combine the best qualities of each. A new A5 just arrived at Fiddler's Green, albeit above budget (though used ones do occasionally turn up in your price range).

[Brad Sicotte]

You really can't go wrong with either a Pava or a Collings. Every Collings I've played is so nice and it seems that they are very consistent in tone. I own an MT and have played a Pava (also own an eastman)...the quality of sound and playability will blow you away!

[darylcrisp]

previous owner of a Pava and we've had 3 Collings MT's thru the house(still have 1 MT and 1 MT2V)

1)buy used in our classifieds-usually you can find a very nice condition used MT or Pava in the $1600-1800, usually within a month you can find one or both at times.

2)neck profiles are very different on each, the Collings having the more defined soft V.

3)to my ears, the MT with Englemann tops produces a very dry organic tone-yet still retains a very projective voice(loud).
the Pava has a sweet melodic tone(I've heard some call it "modern"). both are extremely nice, pick what sounds good to your ears.

4)build quality is excellent on both, both use very nice wood.

excellent choices,

**(oh yea, owned a Northfield F5S for a while also. very nice instrument. neck profile and feel reminded me of a Pava a lot. NF has its own sound, almost in the middle of the MT and Pava. nice build quality and woods. excellent setup typically, smoother easy to use tuners out of the 3(and think about how many times you use a tuner-its a very important part imo). again, check the classifieds and you can sometimes find a used one in the $2200 range. they tend to hold value really well.**

5)customer service/warranty-I have called/emailed all three brands at times to ask about something-all 3 seemed extremely well versed in helping a customer and if using email, all 3 tend to respond very quickly-usually within a day. never needed warranty service.

6)if you buy used, you can pretty much get your $ back in full if you ever sell it-all 3 hold value and tend to sell quickly

d

[Caleb]

FG is the coolest shop anywhere. I got my MT there last year. I was impressed by the Pava I played while there too though. Flawless workmanship from both makers. I'd go with the one that sounds/plays best: both are excellent.

Side note: I also prefer the A-style design. I just think they look better.

[Nick Gellie]

I am a Collings MT fan as I have had both a Pava and a Northfield. Can't beat the playability and projection of a MT. The Pava's strength is at the low end. It is in fact it is a poor man's Ellis A. Both the Pava and the Ellis have similar tone and projection. I prefer mandolins with a Engelmann Spruce top as they are more open to start with and have good response in the A and E strings than a Red Spruce top. A mandolin with a Carpathian Spruce top is somewhere in the middle of the two.

The Northfield model M has a woodier organic sound, pretty comparable to a Collings MT in terms of cut and projection. I had to sell it to pay for my eldest son's wedding present. The guy who bought it off me loves it.

[Londy]

Talk about deep woody sound, and loud!....I love my Collings MTO!

[Mark Wilson]

I play both daily. Hard to judge a favorite because they sound different to me. The Pava sounds like it's coming more from inside the mandolin and the Collings more from the top and strings. The Collings has more shimmer or brighter tone. The Pava a richer melodic sound - more of the pure note than string sound. TBH I like both sounds. Neither sound like a Gibson imo. The necks are similar and I don't favor playing one over the other.

Both sound their very best when picked closer to the end of the finger board

The con on both (for me) is the satin finish. It is delicate and wears easily. The satin finish on the back of my Pava is buffed away leaving a nice semi-gloss. Pinky shine spots on the front are unavoidable for me since I don't play with a closed fist. The satin finish on both is very nice to look at and the price to sound advantage on both satin models is a clear winner imo.

[Mark Miller]

Those are all really helpful comments, everyone. Thanks. I'm gathering two things from the discussion. One is that these are really great mandolins, and I can't go wrong with any of them. The other is that the differences in sound are subtle and worth experiencing myself before I buy anything. Your various descriptions of the tones are great, and interestingly different from each other. I will have to try them all out, probably more than once. That's what I expected anyway. When I finally bought a good guitar, it took me over a year, with repeated trips to various stores. I ended up with a Martin OM-21, which I love. The one I bought was maybe the 7th or 8th OM-21 I tried, not to mention the 000's and other guitars I looked at, and some of those OM-21's I didn't like at all (and there was one 000-18GE that was fantastic..and $1000 more than the OM-21). When I played the guitar I bought, I knew that was the one I wanted. Of course Martins are a bit notorious for sounding and feeling different one from the next. It sounds like Pava, Collings, and Northfields are all pretty consistent. But there's no way I'm buying anything I haven't held in my hands and played first.

[Capt. E]

Give FG a call before you go and ask what they have. You might even call up Ellis and ask about a visit. He's a wonderfully receptive fellow. His shop is about the same distance from downtown Austin as FG (just south instead of north).
Right now FG has a used Collins MT, '23 Gibson A2 paddle head and a'23 snakehead A. New: Ellis F5; Pava "Player", "Pro" and "Satin" (the full line), 10 different Collins mandolins as well as Northfield, Passernig, Ratliff, Kentucky, Eastman etc. Candy store indeed.
I need to stop by, haven't been in a month or so.

[pointpergame]

I just played through the collection at music emporium in mass. And the glossy blond pava-A stood out for me.

[Mark Wilson]

Right now FG has a used Collins MT, '23 Gibson A2 paddle head and a'23 snakehead A. New: Ellis F5; Pava "Player", "Pro" and "Satin" (the full line), 10 different Collins mandolins as well as Northfield, Passernig, Ratliff, Kentucky, Eastman etc. Candy store indeed.

Nice. Wife asked last night where we might like to go for holidays. Austin sounds good to me.

[Capt. E]

Just stopped by at lunch and they have a bigger selection than I have ever seen. The Ellis F5 is gone, but there are 3 Pava's on the wall. The '23 Gibson A2 sounds plays very nicely. Perhaps better than the snakehead A.
Ben and I had a nice conversation about mandolins: manufacturers, different woods, F vs A, how much are the differences due simply to the player, etc.

[Ivan Kelsall]

As an aside to the general thread - on UK TV recently,holidays to the US are being 'pushed' hard.I think that's a good thing. IMHO,everybody should visit the US at least once to experience the sheer size of the country if nothing else. Last night it was the turns of Austin,Texas. I'd never even seen any photos. of Austin & didn't realise just what a lovely city it is ( is it ?).
Back to the thread - i've played several Collings mandolins & they sound pretty similar to my Weber,a sound that i think of as 'modern'. Wide open,crystal clear but not too 'woody' in the bass. My Ellis "A" style is very different in that area. It's as clear as a bell as far up the neck as you care to play it. The lower bass note are beautifully resonant & sustain well. So,as always,it's a matter of which tone you like,
Ivan

[Mark Miller]

Ok now I am REALLY looking forward to my trip. As if being in Austin instead of Chicago in January weren't enough! Too bad I have to work while I'm there!

[Capt. E]

I have lived in Austin since I was 11 years old and have seen it grow and grow and grow. In 1970 the population was 212,000 and was a major stop on the "hippie" road from California to the East and back. I recently heard that the metropolitan area population has now topped 2 million. Even so, it has retained much of the charm and character it had as a smaller town, but with lots of traffic, lots of people, lots and lots of things to do. It is (obviously) a good music town, a tech center, a foodie town, etc. The fact that it can support a fine shop such as Fidders Green says a lot.

ps. Don't Move Here! Just come and visit.

[Caleb]

Austin is a great city, a truly unique place that values its "weirdness" a lot (I mean that in a good and interesting way). The place is beautiful, and very clean for a large city, and the people there take great pride in their local things.

I live up the road a few hours in DFW and am always struck by how different Austin is each time I visit.

Great food too! Try some Tex-Mex and BBQ while there. Lots of neat book shops, coffe shops, and of course Fiddler's Green, the coolest music shop anywhere. The first time I went to FG the guy behind the counter hands me his personal Ellis to play, just out of kindness. Where else does that happen?

[Tobin]

I'd never even seen any photos. of Austin & didn't realise just what a lovely city it is ( is it ?).

Yes, it's a great town. Getting a little crowded for my tastes (being from the UK you probably won't think so), but still has lots of character, scenery, and culture. The people are friendly and fun.

But yeah - come visit and then go home. No offense! Too many people are moving to Austin, or Texas as a whole. It's changing everything.

Anyway, while in Austin, you must try these restaurants:

Trudy's Tex-Mex (I recommend trying the stuffed avacado as well as the pork pastor caliente)

The Shady Grove (their tortilla-fried queso catfish is wonderful!)

The Salt Lick BBQ (go to the original Driftwood location)

[Capt. E]

Being a visitor, I doubt he'll be able to get out to The Salt Lick unless there is a planned dinner he is part of.
Other than that, the Iron Works right next to the convention center would work pretty well for Texas style BBQ. Be sure and go across the Congress Ave bridge, visit the "SoCo" area and get something from one of the food trailers. If you are a beer drinker, there are quite a few Brew Pubs in the downtown area (and all over the city for that matter). I like The Ginger Man on Lavaca St. You could even shoot a round of darts there and feel at home.
Trudy's and Shady Grove are just south of the river down "Barton Springs Road". If you are interested, Barton Springs pool is open year round with a constant temperature of around 70 degrees F. The pool is not far down from the two restaurants. It is also topless optional.

[Mark Miller]

I've been invited to a dinner at Lambert's BBQ. I'll report back on that as well as Fiddlers Green. My parents will disown me if I admit to liking Texas BBQ though. My family's from North Carolina.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Further to my post #18 - It was the turn of 'Houston' Tex to get boosted last night. That city looked pretty good as well !.
From Tobin - "...being from the UK you probably won't think so.." . On the contrary. I grew up in a very rural part of Cheshire in the UK. Well known for it's dairy products,& in places very sparsely populated back just after WWII. I've come to tolerate cities rather than to like them. They're a 'necessary evil',so............ !
Ivan
Pics.of Cheshire UK here :- http://www.picturesofengland.com/Eng...ctures/1074031