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Thread: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    Does anyone know the sizes and sources for slot head screws to replace the Phillips screws on Gotoh tuners? I'm looking for the one on the gear and the one for the button.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners


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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    Thanks, I still have to size these things.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Registered User amowry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    You might be able to ask Roger Siminoff-- I think he replaces the Phillips ones with slotted on his "Loar style" Gotohs.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    I pulled them. I'm going to size them.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    Mike,
    I pulled the post screw on a new set I have. Smaller that 4-40 is all I know. Guessing metric. Would love to know what you come up with on size and pitch. Maybe Gotoh will give you the information. Thanks. Graham

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    I'll get it from one of our local distributors of screws and bolts, hopefully this week.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    I'll get it from one of our local distributors of screws and bolts, hopefully this week.
    Probably metric. M3 thread flathead screw. I remember Bill Halsey replaced screws few years back and they were metric.
    Finding them in nickel finish instead of zinc would be harder. Though Loar's didn't have plated screws, did they?
    If you cannot find them PM me, I can help with metric screws if they are available here (likely zinc plated only)
    Adrian

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    Thanks Adrian, I may not get this done until later this week.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    Does anyone remember a long string from a few years ago where a member described his search of the entire planet (it seemed) for some small screws on a set of tuner buttons? If you could find that thread there must be dozens of leads to places with all kinds of small screws and bolts metric, SAE and other.

    This is the screw on my Gotoh tuners but like yours it is a Phillips head. Looks to be 9.2mm long; 2.2 mm diameter, with 18 threads/7.5mm (2.4 threads/mm). I suppose it is actually 2.5 threads/mm?
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    Last edited by Bernie Daniel; Dec-12-2015 at 9:31pm.
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    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    That looks like it could be metric M2, that should be 0.4mm pitch (thread to thread distance) and 2.2mm diameter might still fit the hole... Or DIN2.3mm thread (German)
    M2.5 would be .45mm pich
    These are the button screws, I guess. The gear screws will be larger diameter.
    Adrian

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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    I have all the sizes for the screws. I'll try and get them up this afternoon. Because of the quantities I have to buy to actually get them I thought about selling sets but that's more work than I want to go through for what you could end up making on them.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    OK, I just stopped to get this.

    Gear screws:

    Diameter: M3
    Length: 8mm
    Thread Pitch: 0.5mm
    Specifications: DIN963

    Button screws:

    Diameter: M2 <---Correction-This is wrong. M2 is not large enough. M2.5 is too large.
    Length: 8mm
    Thread Pitch: 0.4mm

    The problem you'll have with the button screws will be getting a slotted round head screw. I haven't found a domestic source yet, but I have found them in pan head and cheese head screws.

    Button washer:

    Diameter: M2
    Specifications: DIN433

    2mm washer.
    Last edited by MikeEdgerton; Jan-25-2016 at 9:11pm. Reason: Wrong screw size
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    By the way, these sizes are based on a single set of Gotoh tuners I have. I'm assuming all of the Gotoh tuners are the same size.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    Sources:

    Stainless gear screw:
    http://www.mrmetric.com/metric-faste...ew/M30658.html

    Brass gear screw:
    http://www.mrmetric.com/metric-faste...ew/M34207.html

    Stainless slotted button screw (cheese head):
    http://www.mrmetric.com/metric-faste...ew/M31782.html

    Stainless slotted button screw (pan head):
    http://www.metricscrews.us/index.php...roducts_id=390

    I never found a source for brass button screws.

    Stainless M2 2mm button washer:
    http://www.mrmetric.com/metric-faste...s-steel-a2-m2/

    The brass M2 button washer was available from a few vendors on Amazon.

    I was looking a stainless screws for the nickel Gotoh's as there wasn't a whole lot of nickel stuff listed. Obviously the brass screws for the gold would tarnish after a while.

    If anyone has sources for the other post a link to the item.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    Mike, why do you want slot heads? When working near delicate surfaces I appreciate the centering effect of the Phillips, a little more tolerant of misalignment. But I guess the slot head discourages carelessness, a good thing!

    Those metric fastener sources are wonderful, thanks for those.

    I was under the impression that there is no agreement on metric thread standards, but now I think it's only that hex head sizes may be different for a given metric thread series. You notice this when you work on cars from different countries.

    Here's a fun resource that shows the incredible diversity of thread systems:
    http://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/index.html

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    The slot heads are more traditional looking. Note that the most expensive tuners you can buy (Waverly) do not use Phillips heads. That's really the only reason. The Gotoh's come with Phillips head screws.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    The slot heads are more traditional looking. Note that the most expensive tuners you can buy (Waverly) do not use Phillips heads. That's really the only reason. The Gotoh's come with Phillips head screws.
    Would it be worth contacting Waverly on this as a source or infor on their suppliers? Maybe they use SAE sizes?
    Last edited by Bernie Daniel; Dec-16-2015 at 7:15am.
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    Bernie, they aren't SAE, they are metric. The sizes are listed above. I bought screws to make sure I had the right sizes, they are. It would probably be easier for someone in Europe to get the brass screws with the right heads unless you get lucky at a local supplier. All of the sizes are listed. You can get the brass cheese head button screws, they just won't be as rounded on the top.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    The other possibility is to re-tap the shafts to use an SAE sized button screw but you're on your own with that one.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Bernie, they aren't SAE, they are metric. The sizes are listed above. I bought screws to make sure I had the right sizes, they are. It would probably be easier for someone in Europe to get the brass screws with the right heads unless you get lucky at a local supplier. All of the sizes are listed. You can get the brass cheese head button screws, they just won't be as rounded on the top.
    OK my question was confusing. I realize Gotoh uses metric, Phillips-headed screws.

    But Waverly uses the slot headed screws. So they might be a source or at least they would have a source of screws if they also used metric threads. But I guess you implying that they do not use a metric thread then so you can't use them?
    Bernie
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    I would be shocked if Waverly went to the trouble of having metric screws made when they are readily available in SAE sizes. I could be wrong but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that they would. I don't have a set of Waverly tuners to tear down and check.

    I guess you could contact them and ask.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    The other possibility is to re-tap the shafts to use an SAE sized button screw but you're on your own with that one.
    I just noticed that the all the screws on this 1970 - 80's era set of tuners on the Gibson copy mandolin that I have are slot headed.

    The button screw -- shown is 0.492" long (12.5 mm) and 0.082" (2.0 mm) diameter shaft with 27/0.423" or about 64 threads/inch this is equivalent to 2.5 threads/mm.

    Not sure what kind of tuners those are and no idea if that thread is metric or SAE but it is probably metric?
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    Bernie
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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel View Post
    I just noticed that the all the screws on this 1970 - 80's era set of tuners on the Gibson copy mandolin that I have are slot headed.

    The button screw -- shown is 0.492" long (12.5 mm) and 0.082" (2.0 mm) diameter shaft with 27/0.423" or about 64 threads/inch this is equivalent to 2.5 threads/mm.

    Not sure what kind of tuners those are and no idea if that thread is metric or SAE but it is probably metric?
    If they were imported maybe. If they were made in the US I don't think they would be. If you have an extra set of those let me know
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: Slot head screws for Gotoh Tuners

    I got screws a few years back from Fasteners & Metal Products Corporation in Waltham, MA. the size was 2-56, slot round brass nickel plated for use in Gotoh machines. I got them 3/8" long but just a hair shorter might have been better since it gets harder to twist them in as they get close to being fully seated. I also consulted with Saga on their switching out the Gotoh Phillips screws for their Kentucky mandolins. They tried them but told me that while it was a really close match it wasn't a perfect fit because the Japanese have their own standard which is neither SAE or metric. This would account for the hard twist at the end. F&MPC told them that a thread chaser might helpful prior to installing. I suspect they abandoned the idea of using them because off the extra work involved in higher production runs.
    As a side note, I switched out screws on two tuner sets a few months ago. The nickel set fit in as usual but the gold A tuners had a slightly larger bore and the screws did not fit. I haven't verified it as yet but I'm wondering if they have retooled and changed their machine screw size recently.

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