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Thread: Seeking more info on this washburn bowback

  1. #1

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    I got my first mandolin for Christmas, so naturally I ran right out and bought another...any way I was wondering if someone might be able to date it and maybe guess at the model.
    Serial number is 20586A. Last digit is a bit tough to be sure of.



  2. #2
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Our friend Hubert Pleijsier just published his long awaited book "Washburn: Prewar Instrument Styles" which is a must have volume for Washburn/L+H afficianados (which, like you, many of us here are.) The model numbers for many Washburn bowlbacks were stamped on the end of the headstock. #If I'm counting the number of ribs correctly my guess is that yours is a model 215..... The Washburn/L+H serial numbers started and stopped a number of times but from Hubert's appendix your number appears to be from between 1915-1920 if I am reading it right.

    Yours looks to be in very good condition save the missing bit of trim. As usual with the Washburn, the rosewood is of exceptional quality. #I've had a few Washburn bowlbacks over the years and enjoyed them very much. #The higher end models are exceptional in style and craft.

    I highly recommend Hubert's book. It is available on Amazon at a good price.

    Mick



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  3. #3

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    "Aye" on all counts.

  4. #4

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    Thanks. I am enjoying playing on it immensely. Something about the round shape and feel of the bowlback just appeals to me. (I don't think it's Freudian.) There is a little crack, right where that binding is missing, the same length as the bare space, but other than a little lifting of the rear edge of the celluloid guard, it seems sound, and sounds great. Certainly much, much better than the new chinese-made one I received, and at the same price!

    There is an inked stamp inside, now that I look: 205854; should this match the label? Maybe I mistook a 90-year old "54" for "6A" The stamp is the clearer of the two.

    I am really going to have to get that book, that era of mandolin is so beautiful and affordable. I have already bought a fixer-upper that might be a L+H "Jupiter" brand. I am resisting the urge to get more already. Although there's one that just needs a bridge and it's only $10...

  5. #5
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Yes, you are so right, and welcome then, to The Loyal Order of the Bowl. This era Washburn mandolins (which really are the ones to seek out from L+H) remain real bargains, even when in need of a bit of fiddling or small repairs. The serial number you have suggest just how many were made, which perhaps is some reason, but a lack of appreciation seems more like it to me. For a high production model they have good quality materials, exhibit nice tone, good volume and playability. For $150-200 they are an unmatchable value. Hopefully the world at large won't catch on too fast.

    Mick
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  6. #6
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    You know, in looking further at Hubert's book at his page showing the evolving Washburn labels (and again at the serial number appendix) yours might actually be ~10 years older than I first supposed, more likely from around 1905 or so.

    Mick
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  7. #7
    Registered User Rick Jones's Avatar
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    I have a nearly identical Washburn bowlback which belonged to my great-grandfather. The only visual difference I see from the photo above are the fingerboard inlays: mine has a dot at the 5th, but engraved diamond shapes at the 7th and 10th and something altogether different at the 12th. The pickguard is inlaid into the top. The label appears to be identical; serial number is A-13672.

    What mine also has, sadly, is a split along center seam of the top from the bridge back to the tailpiece. I've built a few guitars and a couple of carved mandolins, but I haven't a clue where I'd even begin as far as fixing the split. I'd need to hire a crew of miniature monkeys to get in through that soundhole!
    All my life I wanted to be somebody, now I realize I should have been more specific.

  8. #8
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Rick, do you have a photo you can post? It sounds like yours might be a model 220, and from the serial number from the early 'teens. The fretboard inlays differed on 215 model and the 220 models as you have described. The binding patterns changed ca. 1910 which may give a clue which side of that date it was made.

    (If it sounds like I actually know something about these, I don't. It is all Hubert, I'm just working my way through his book. He's done a Herculean task sorting through all the various Washburn models and variations. It isn't airtight, but very thorough given the scattered resources he has had to work through.)

    Mick
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  9. #9

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    Another good source on Washburn mandolins remains Neil Russell's concise and hugely useful article in Mandolin Magazine (I'm away from full citation at the moment). I believe the configuration of bowl lining and label would place yours in the 1905-1910 range, Schlegel, according to Russell, but don't hold me to it without consulting the source. I can look it up in both sources if anybody is really curious.

  10. #10

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    If you happen to have that other reference handy, Eugene, I would be tickled to know more exactly. At least I can tell my Father-in-Law next time I see him that I've got an instrument that's older than he is. He's 92, so that doesn't happen a lot. I pulled the trigger on Hubert's book last night. I see my on-line window shopping getting quite entertaining in the future.

  11. #11
    Registered User Rick Jones's Avatar
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    OK - here are a few shots of my old Washburn. I opened the tailpiece cover; it looks to me like the tailpiece was altered at some point in time. Are the strings really supposed to be hooked around the screw like this? I've had this mandolin probably 30 or 35 years, and probably haven't looked at the tailpiece since I first got it.





    All my life I wanted to be somebody, now I realize I should have been more specific.

  12. #12
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    I have never seen anything like that before.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  13. #13
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Here are some shots of mine. Its pretty similar.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  14. #14
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Label
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    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  15. #15
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Does yours have a cover for the tuners?
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    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  16. #16

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    Wow, every string hook was snapped off that tailpiece! So I technically I wouldn't call it an alteration. It's at least one model step up from mine. I like that decoration on both sides of the binding.

  17. #17
    Registered User Rick Jones's Avatar
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    Jeff - Yep, mine has the metal cover on the back of the headstock. Yours and mine appear to be the same model. The condition of the tailpiece probably also has a lot to do with the split in the top. There's no tension on the strings right now. My grandmother gave this mandolin to me back in the 70's. Prior to that, my aunt had it hanging on a wall, and put cut flowers in it. Unfortunately, the flowers were often wet, so there was water damage to the butt end of it. In the shot of the back you can see a split along the rosewood beneath the tailpiece. That section had pulled away from the sides quite a bit. There were also some sections of purfling which had pulled away, and the paper bag it was in had dozens of little individual pink and white pieces of wood that made up the purfling. A so-called repair person did some work on it for me back then, but in some cases he just glued the purfling back into place and filled in the gaps with some sort of filler. Aside from all of that, it is in pretty good condition considering its age.

    It also looks like it's got a banjo bridge on it. If I can fix the top seam, or have it fixed, I might go looking for another tailpice, make a new bridge, and actually play this once in awhile. It's sure a different animal than the carved-top instruments! To me it's always been a treasured link to my own past, but it would be nice to hear music coming out of it occasionally.

    I'd love to know the whole history of this instrument, but it's owner died back in the 30's when my Dad was a boy. All those who might know more about it are long gone, and the one remaining great aunt (the one with the bud vase) is nearly 90, and has no memory of it. I don't know if he bought it new, used, traded or what. Nobody ever seemed to have remembered him playing it back then. It just sort of appeared at some point, and is one of the few things that's still around.
    All my life I wanted to be somebody, now I realize I should have been more specific.

  18. #18

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    I must be close to a distribution center or something, because Hubert's book arrived already. Seems to match a 215 from 1905 or 06, as you said. I hate to think how much work that book must have been.

  19. #19
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Rick Jones @ Mar. 06 2008, 21:05)
    I opened the tailpiece cover; it looks to me like the tailpiece was altered at some point in time. Are the strings really supposed to be hooked around the screw like this?
    Nope. here is what the tailpiece is supposed to looks like.
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    Jim

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  20. #20
    Registered User Rick Jones's Avatar
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    Holy cats! There is a lot of metal missing from mine. I cannot imagine that much could have just broken off. I wonder what chance there is of stumbling across another tailpiece of that vintage?
    All my life I wanted to be somebody, now I realize I should have been more specific.

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    Registered User Bill Snyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Rick Jones @ Mar. 07 2008, 21:22)
    .... I wonder what chance there is of stumbling across another tailpiece of that vintage?
    I am a bit reluctant to suggest this but it might be easier to find a basket case instrument and canabolize it.
    Bill Snyder

  22. #22
    Registered User Rick Jones's Avatar
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    Bill - No reason to be reluctant - I'd already had the same thought myself!
    All my life I wanted to be somebody, now I realize I should have been more specific.

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    Default Re: Seeking more info on this washburn bowback

    That label was only used from 1905-1907.

  24. #24
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seeking more info on this washburn bowback

    Quote Originally Posted by Screenclassics View Post
    That label was only used from 1905-1907.
    Just be aware that you are replying to an 11-year-old thread.
    Jim

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