My 22 F4....

[Tailgate]

Was that a local purchase slimt? I'm from Alberta as well and you almost never see quality mandolins for sale around these parts... let alone an old gibson like that. Looks like a great player.

[slimt]

here are other pictures..







and New York Pat. Waverlys.

[slimt]

Was that a local purchase slimt? I'm from Alberta as well and you almost never see quality mandolins for sale around these parts... let alone an old gibson like that. Looks like a great player.

Hi Fellow Albertan.. I bought this out of Southern Illinois..

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Telling from the pics, it seems like a new neck with retained peg head veneer.

[slimt]

Telling from the pics, it seems like a new neck with retained peg head veneer.

Thank you...

[Timbofood]

That makes sense.
Henry, how is it you win so many cookies and can still move your fingers to post?
The neck job was done well, very well actually. Joint looks very nicely done. Like I said, just play it and don't worry, it's what it has become.

[Ken Waltham]

Telling from the pics, it seems like a new neck with retained peg head veneer.

Yep, I agree. Looks like it could have lacquer overspray, and the lack of veneer on the back of the peghead would suggest 1930's. The F4's from that era have no veneer on the backside of the p/h.
Still, it is a lovely mandolin, and do not let these observations be taken as negative. It's really pretty, and, I bet it sounds great, too.

[slimt]

Ya.. Im happy with it.. at least its not the body all cracked up or anything.. a neck can always be found and put back in place. Not a big deal , lots of good luthiers out there.. ... I put some strings on it.. going to see how it sounds..

Thanks again for pointing out what I did not know..

[Timbofood]

Exactly! Take good care of it, have fun!
Having a restoration to period correct neck won't be cheap, this has d one a good job since the (30's?) middle of its life, just enjoy it. Tha work was probably done "down the street from me", back then the guys knew how to do most of this projects. There was quite a period when they didn't, you should be proud to have it, don't let anyone tell you different!

[Stephen Perry]

These really are lovely. I went through one today, a player. Larger frets, no major cracks, no distortion to speak of except where a badly fitted bridge had deformed the top a little. Pick guard still there. Has a Simonoff one piece with Red Henry style cuts. Very solid. Had a beautiful tone when I started, but a bit of imbalance here and there, some wow wooow wow noisy stuff, and not as much clarity and purity as I know these have. The body was very nicely balanced out to begin with - I found a few lumps that were muddying up the response, very few. The old wood gives such a nice bell sound.

The bridge was a whole different animal from what I am used to. Marginally fitted. Now it only seats fully with full string pressure, and is a bit light over the depressed spots. I trust the instrument will adapt to the this and be a bit self-restoring. Really wanted to take pressure off the dimples! The bridge itself had the violin bridge sort of wings coming out. Just formed with slots. Substantially smoothed and opened up what are now very long "feet" until the rang and tapped very purely. Did the usual this and that to the central reaches, with a good deal of work around the joined center holes. That made the D / A area much more lively. Ended up clipping the ends and doing some fine tuning with tapers.

Then strung up.

Wow. I do believe this is the most beautiful sounding mandolin I have ever played. Crystal clear, sweet, sustaining (but not too much). So pure and clean. Goosebump good, which is rare for me with mandolins. Usually only have that response on those pesky high $$ violins.

So I really hope this one is as good. They are such a wonderful and historic design, and to have them work so beautifully is a real treat!

Enjoy

[slimt]

Thanks.. I got it strung up and tuned... Killer tone and Bright .. way better than the 1920 A4 I had.. I was able to do a few chords.. you know?? the beginner stuff..

[Tobin]

Yep, I agree. Looks like it could have lacquer overspray, and the lack of veneer on the back of the peghead would suggest 1930's.

Thank goodness it didn't get the typical Gibson 1930s refurb treatment with that tacky sunburst they favored back then. An F4 just looks right when it's red.

[Spruce]

.. a neck can always be found and put back in place. Not a big deal , lots of good luthiers out there.. ...

Nah. It is what it is...
You don't really gain a lot by getting it back to original...

Yep, I agree. Looks like it could have lacquer overspray...

Yeah, the type of checking on the back of the neck suggests later lacquer? Maybe even '50's...??

...and the lack of veneer on the back of the peghead would suggest 1930's. The F4's from that era have no veneer on the backside of the p/h.

I'd pop a dyed pearwood veneer on that puppy (really easy to do), do the proper color shading on the neck (or not), and call it a day...

[EdHanrahan]

... The neck is not the most important part of the vintage tone that your F4 is giving you.

Y'all know those Stradivarius fiddles, the ones now selling well into 8 digits? Most, if not all (?), of those have had their necks replaced. Doesn't seem to de-value them very much!

[houseworker]

Telling from the pics, it seems like a new neck with retained peg head veneer.

Looks like the original neck didn't have a truss rod, as the inlay is almost certainly a double flowerpot. I'm not sure that the truss rod cover is factory, either.

Whoever made that new neck did a superb job.

[houseworker]

Y'all know those Stradivarius fiddles, the ones now selling well into 8 digits? Most, if not all (?), of those have had their necks replaced. Doesn't seem to de-value them very much!

Modified, rather than replaced. Almost all done by the Parisian luthier and dealer Jean Baptiste Vuillaume.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Yep, I agree. Looks like it could have lacquer overspray, and the lack of veneer on the back of the peghead would suggest 1930's. The F4's from that era have no veneer on the backside of the p/h.
Still, it is a lovely mandolin, and do not let these observations be taken as negative. It's really pretty, and, I bet it sounds great, too.

I agree with you, Ken. Should be a great mandolin. To support your '30s-suggestion, those tuners, indeed, look like late '20s/'30s to me. This F4 (#81536) was shipped in '27:

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Looks like the original neck didn't have a truss rod, as the inlay is almost certainly a double flowerpot. I'm not sure that the truss rod cover is factory, either.

Hard to tell, if the original had a truss rod. Some transitional F4s had their (original) truss rod drilled right through the inlay, such as #70377:

[Ken Waltham]

yes, it would be totally normal for a '22 F4 to have the old peghead overlay, that is drilled through for the truss rod cavity. More like that than without.

[Stephen Perry]

Modified, rather than replaced. Almost all done by the Parisian luthier and dealer Jean Baptiste Vuillaume.

Incorrect. Most replaced with scroll graft. Needed longer.

Neck material and mass distribution can be very important

[slimt]

I agree with you, Ken. Should be a great mandolin. To support your '30s-suggestion, those tuners, indeed, look like late '20s/'30s to me. This F4 (#81536) was shipped in '27:

You have been very helpful.. Thank you.. Those tuners are very close to whats on my F4 the ones I have , do have engraving on the plates though.. not that it matters much..

[Timbofood]

Slim, you have found a bunch of mandolin geeks (in a good way) who will sometimes overwhelm you with information. The knowledge here still amazes me. I hope you have as much fun as I have!