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Thread: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

  1. #1

    Default Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    HI

    I've just bought a nice Gibson A4 here in the UK which is pretty much faultless, but the ebony endpin only stays in place with some packing. I've tried other ones I have, but they're all too loose.

    What's the ideal way to fill the hole and re-drill it ? Would a dowel be okay or should the grain run the other way ?

    I'll be getting a Luthier to do it but I'd like to know what to ask for.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    How much bigger is the hole than the pin? It's sometimes useful to be able to take them out and, rather than filling/re-drilling, you could try wrapping the pin with PTFE (plumber's) tape. I've heard of people using a blob of nail varnish which will hold the pin in place but can easily be broken if you want to take it out.

  3. #3
    fishing with my mando darrylicshon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    There has to be some bigger endpins out there , if not i would make one , but if you couldn't maybe a friend could, But i am No expert.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    The hole is about 10mm or 3/5 inch and the endpin is maybe 1/16th too small. I'll try tape, but I like to use a strap so it has to be solid. When I use a strap I can keep my left hand more loose & I seem to play better. Also doesn't dig into my finger joint quite so much.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    Ray I see you're just over the hill from me. I live in Greenfield, Saddleworth.

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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    Good suggestions IMO. BTW, plumber's tape to me is the metal strapping used to secure plumbing to wall framing, etc., but googling it reveals that these days many people are calling teflon pipe thread tape "plumber's tape" - times change.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    Most good luthiers can make an endpin. I would never redrill, but do a new endpin instead.
    Or, as others say, use some blue masking tape or something like that.

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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    The metal strap used to sucure pipe to studs or joists is called strap iron, plumbers tape is Teflon. Plumbers have their own jargon. When you learn the speak you are ready for your license.

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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    You might try and end pin for a violin as they come fairly thick and will be slimmed to fit the particular instrument. You may find this can be fit to your mandolin fairly easily.
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    Registered User bradlaird's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    I have given them a little grip by rubbing the pin on a block of fiddle rosin.

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    I kind of lean toward pops suggestion, a violin maker/repair person would probably have a pin, WITH the right reamer, to get you squared away pretty easily. Having both makes the fit work properly.
    Timothy F. Lewis
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  13. #12

    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoplumb View Post
    Plumbers have their own jargon. When you learn the speak you are ready for your license.
    Carpenters also like to use their own terms such as, joist, rafter, stud, and flooring --which all mean BOARDS -- just depends on what direction they are going.....close as I can figure.

  14. #13
    Registered User Frank Ford's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    Here's a technique I've used often:

    SECURING A LOOSE END PIN

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    Hi Davey - I'm 'up the hill & down' from you in North Manchester. If there's still enough room on the pin as it is for the strap to fit onto,then remove the pin,clean out the hole to make sure there's no 'bits' in it,then coat one side the pin with a tiny smear of clear nail varnish. ( it doesn't need varnish all round). Push it firmly into the hole & let it dry for an hour. The pin should now be very secure - but,the varnish will break if you grasp the pin in a pair of pliers (with padded jaws) & twist it sharply. The endpin in my Lebeda mandolin kept popping out. I used nail varnish to keep it in place & it's been in place for the last 5 years or more. You can also use a small,narrow strip of masking tape along the length of the pin as well, a variation on Ray's advice,
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  18. #15

    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    Thanks, folks. I'm going to visit the local violin maker and see what he's got, otherwise I'll try the Superglue technique as the hole really does need to be smaller.

    Nice to meet you, Ivan & Ray.

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    Registered User John Kelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    Another option you might look at, Davey, is to use a strip of fine sandpaper, 240 grit or thereabouts, and wrap this around the pin, cutting side against the pin and plain side outermost. The grit grips the pin and you can get a tight fit by adjusting how much paper you use - half a wrap, whole wrap, or more.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    Davey - Whatever you do DON'T use superglue !!!!. If you ever need to remove the endpin for any repair work needing to be done - you're sunk !. The pin needs to be secure,but still removeable. Usually you'll need only a few thousandths of an inch build-up on the pin to secure it. It might seem like throwing a sausage up the Mersey Tunnel,but it ain't !,
    Ivan
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    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
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  24. #18
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    Davey - Whatever you do DON'T use superglue !!!!.
    Actually superglue is exactly what I would use (round the inside of the hole, as per Frank Ford) - but you let it dry really good and hard for half a day before you touch it or insert anything in there.

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  26. #19

    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    I used decorator's masking tape on one of mine (just a single wrap around the post) and it's solid as a rock.

  27. #20
    Registered User ferrousgeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    Most luthiers I know recommend building up the end pin with superglue. Coat the pin with glue, let it harden and cure BEFORE inserting into the instrument. Repeat until you build up to the desired diameter to get a snug fit. No need to put wet glue on or in the instrument. No need to glue the pin into the instrument.
    I've done this many times on modern and vintage instruments, it works better than any other method I have tried!

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    OK, all that said. Davey, did you take it to the violin maker?
    There are dozens of ways to make this work, hundreds of ideas, some good some not so good. My feeling comes from the way the taper is supposed to work, the paper of the hole and the corresponding taper on the pin should be the same, then simple surface tension holds them in. I have seen so many kitchen table repairs which have and have not worked, doing the right thing just seems easier in the long run. The tape will work, the glues, nail varnish, sandpaper will work but, isn't it reasonable to make the tow pieces work together the way they were intended?
    Just the way I would do it.
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  30. #22
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    Taper ream. Fit matching plug. Drill and ream to match freshly taper cut pin. That's a proper fix. No big deal at all, gets done and redone and redone and redone on the old fiddles.
    Stephen Perry

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  32. #23
    formerly Philphool Phil Goodson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    What ferrousgeek said: Build up the endpin with superglue layers and sand to proper size. Why mess with the endpin hole ?
    I've done it numerous times and always with good results. No need to actually glue the pin in place.

    Now if you're handy, and want to do it in a perfectly restorative way, do what Stephen said.

    Obviously, Frank Ford is the man. His method is a good one; just have to be a little more careful not to mess up the finish on the instrument.
    Phil

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    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    What Steven said is the way to really repair the end pin. That being said it sounds like that there is significant space in the fit so this would be the way to go. A small amount of play super glue would work well, but to build a significant area i would opt for Steven's method, I have done it many times. Choose what you feel will work as you alone can see what is needed.
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  34. #25

    Default Re: Advice on repair to endpin hole please

    Thanks all, I'll take Stevens words to the Violin maker and see what he says. He was carving a top last time I visited which is not a good time to have a chat. Cheers

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