mandola picks

[Tatyana]

I might be over thinking it or just getting obsessed... I picked up about twenty different picks. They all feel different, obviously, and I am not sure if there are specific mandola picks. I seem to lean towards very small tear shaped picks.. (Two out of twenty got chewed up by our puppy! :-). I saw a mandolist use a bent pick during the concert this weekend. I am not sure which way to go...

[journeybear]

Just one quick question: Are you starting with the mandola or have you been playing mandolin already? If the latter is the case, then you should stick with what you've been using. You may want to use a slightly heavier pick because the strings on a mandola are somewhat heavier gauge. If the former is the case, then you might as well try a few different picks to see what feels right. I don't believe there is much difference between guitar and mandolin picks, generally speaking, despite all the time spent by many, many people here over the years discussing such matters. *

AFAIC guitar picks work better than those little teardrop mandolin picks because they are bigger and thus easier to hold. But if you like them, fine. It really comes down to whatever you like, because there really is no one "proper" pick style. There probably are some manufacturers who offer for sale mandola picks; I doubt there's a whole lot of difference between them and other picks, but you never know. Someone may well ring in now that I've said that and insist there is and offer supposedly indisputable evidence to back up this supposition. I shall remain skeptical, and continue using my Dunlop 1.5mm and 2mm picks.

And welcome to the Café! It is a haven for endless discussion of minutiae more or less pertinent to the mandolin.






* Go ahead and read through some of these threads. Be prepared for some wide-ranging, abstract, even absurd testimonials and theories.

[Mandobart]

Like some players the longer I play, the thicker my picks get. I've been using the Wegen M200 for everything - mandolin, 'dola, OM, mandocello and guitar. Now I'm liking the M300 too. Got a couple bluechips, like the Wegens better.

[Explorer]

The thinner and/or more flexible the pick,the more energy is stored in the bending of the pick, and the more upper frequency activity is imparted to the string when the string is finally released by the pick edge.

The stiffer the pick, either through thickness, material or shape, the less potential energy is stored in pick flex while moving the pick, and the less upper frequency activity is imparted to the string.

Just as an easy self-demonstration, you can use one of your guitar picks, and alternate between playing a phrase or doing tremolo using the point, and using one of the upper, more rounded edges. Do this with a few of the picks, both stiffer and more flexible. Do you hear a difference in the brightness of the instrument? If so, which is brighter in general, the tip or the rounded upper edge?

[Jim Garber]

I used the same picks as I used for mandolin when I played more mandola. Yo may have to go thru a pile to find the one that pleases you.

[JeffD]

For mandolin I prefer the thicker picks, 1.4 mm is my favorite. Thicker and edge effects seem to make a lot of difference.

I always figured that the thicker the pick the more of my arm energy that went to actually moving strings, as opposed to flexing the pick itself.

But theory goes aside compared to actual experience. Because I find the picks I like on the mandolin are not good on the guitar. So mandocello might be similar.

Try stuff, use what works, explain to yourself why it works (or not) while you are having way to much fun playing.

[EdHanrahan]

The thinner and/or more flexible the pick, the more energy is stored in the bending of the pick, and the more upper frequency activity is imparted to the string when the string is finally released by the pick edge.

Agree on the upper frequency part, but the storage of potential energy in a light-gauge pick never, IMHO, seems to translate to added volume (kinetic energy?) of the picked string. Mostly, in my experience, it's the opposite, meaning quieter. Or possibly meaning that the treble imparted by a light pick remains constant while the mids & bass are not quite happening.

I've always assumed (yeah, I know!) that BG guitarists favor thicker picks than most other -acoustic- guitarists because they get added volume (at the expense of high-end sparkle which would be largely lost against banjoes & fiddles).

Again in my experience, the small teardrop-style picks are mostly favored by jazzers, whose large archtops these days are usually electrified. Not sure what they picked with in the pre-Charlie Christian era, but guessing that it was fairly stiff tortoise.

Just my observations... not trying to be argumentative. I've been wrong before and surely will be again!

More on topic: The few mandola players I've known have used the same pick as on mandolin, not surprising since 3 of the 4 open courses are the same notes as mandolin. But granted, that's a very small sample!

[acousticphd]

I am a fan of larger 3-pt picks for the reason that you can fashion slightly different points on the same pick, although you can do the same using the shoulders as well as the point of a teardrop pick. For whatever reason, I use slightly less heavy and more pointed picks when playing mandola, vs. mandolin. For some years now I have use a 3-point 1.4 mm purple Dunlop tortex pick .

https://www.google.com/search?q=dunl...2l0-jd6K1IM%3A

But regardless of the pick, I always reshape/rebevel the points and edge picks by hand to get a more favorable bevel and tone, as well as create a slight range of points. I am never happy with a pick straight out of the tray, but I am looking for a starting shape, weight, and material that is promising.

Everyone goes through a version of pickmania. It might make sense to sample 3-4 makes or styles at a time to hone in on what you favor. I think you said you are playing a TC flattop mandola. Typically these have bright tone, which you can warm up both by the strings you choose (phosphor bronze or flatwounds, for eg), and the material and shape of your pick.

[Explorer]

The thinner and/or more flexible the pick,the more energy is stored in the bending of the pick, and the more upper frequency activity is imparted to the string when the string is finally released by the pick edge.

The stiffer the pick, either through thickness, material or shape, the less potential energy is stored in pick flex while moving the pick, and the less upper frequency activity is imparted to the string.

Agree on the upper frequency part, but the storage of potential energy in a light-gauge pick never, IMHO, seems to translate to added volume (kinetic energy?) of the picked string. Mostly, in my experience, it's the opposite, meaning quieter. Or possibly meaning that the treble imparted by a light pick remains constant while the mids & bass are not quite happening.

Hmm. Let me try to clarify a little bit.

With a stiffer pick, due to either material or shape, the pick flexes less, or not at all. The speed of the pick edge when the string is released is limited to the speed at which the holding fingers are traveling past each string.

With a flexible pick, when the string releases and moves past the pick edge, the pick edge moves not just at the speed of the holding fingers, but also with additional speed imparted by the energy stored and then released in the pick flex. That flexing action acts as a spring in storing and then releasing energy.

To give an easy-to-visualize example, two pieces of the same metal, same weight, are on a table. One is shaped like a coin. The other is shaped into a spring, with the coil pointing vertically. You quickly slap down and release both pieces of metal. Which one better stores and releases the energy of the slap, and translates it into upwards motion?

[JeffD]

http://jazzmando.com/tips/archives/000718.shtml

[journeybear]

I was afraid of this. Even though our new member asked a simple question - which by the way, was answered in very practical fashion here:

I used the same picks as I used for mandolin when I played more mandola. You may have to go thru a pile to find the one that pleases you.

and here:

Try stuff, use what works, explain to yourself why it works (or not) while you are having way to much fun playing.

this esoteric discussion recently done to death (apparently, not quite) on another thread, has reared its ugly head again. As I mentioned earlier, "[this] is a haven for endless discussion of minutiae more or less pertinent to the mandolin" and "read through some of these threads. Be prepared for some wide-ranging, abstract, even absurd testimonials and theories." This is exactly what I meant.

It's astonishing how quickly this thread derailed from its original topic and went off into that twilight zone. Perhaps, rather than get all weird and give Tatyana the impression that a lot of people here are more concerned with promoting their own agendas than helping others, people who want to continue this discussion take it on back over there. Or start a thread devoted to that topic.

I know that won't happen. Never does. Threads get hijacked and that's that, and it's just too bad. So I'll just say this:

By Newton's first law of motion, a string will stay at rest until a force is applied from the outside, as by a pick. By Newton's third law of motion, that string "exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction" on the pick. A flexible pick is displaced backward by the inertia of the string to a greater extent than a thicker pick. The flexing of a pick in this situation is not an example of greater potential energy being created which will then be applied to the string, but negative energy (ie, energy in the opposite direction) imparted to the pick by the string. A thick pick transmits more force from the outside source (arm/wrist/hand/fingers) to the string than a thin pick. Potential energy is being stored in the pick all right, but it is being distributed not to the string, which is causing the displacement, but into the air after it passes the string.

Try this. Put an object on a table; a coin such as a nickel will do nicely. Give it a flick with a thick pick, then a thin one. Which one drives it further? A thick one, of course. Why? Because the inertia of the coin is pushing back on the thin pick causing more deformity on it than on the thick pick.

Heck, if this flexible hypothesis were true, hammers would be made much differently than they are. Ever try hammering a nail with a piece of flexible steel? Ain't gonna work.

I'm sorry, Tatyana. Discussions of this nature are like catnip to me, like waving a red flag in front of a bull; try as I might, I can't resist. I suggest you do what the others suggested, and is the most sensible approach, anyway: Go through your collection of picks, try them all, observe how each works, and choose whichever one(s) suit you best. That's all that matters.

[derbex]

FWIW I use the same plectrum (get me!) on my A style mandolin and my OM -it's a Jazz III, and Dava Jazz grips on the bowl back and flat top mandolins. I (currently) think it needs beefier plectrums to drive the first two, although a thinner Tortex sounds pretty good too, it's more the size of the pick in the hand that does it, they all have sharp points.

[Ancient]

I’ve been using a Dunlop 73 Ultex and have been happy with the sound on the mandola.

[Drew Egerton]

I found that as I went to liking smaller (but thick) picks on the mandolin, I preferred to stay with a larger shape on the mandola for whatever reason. About the same thickness though.

[WoodyCTA102]

Dawg picks work well for me. I also like thinner picks for different sound and dynamics.

[Em Tee]

I have an eastman mandola. For my mandolins I often use a bluechip ct55 which is a rather thick pick with a beveled edge and pointed tip. I personally found that, due to the added flatwound string (vs mandolin) and the thickness of the flatwounds, I was getting a lot of unwanted pick noise. Now this could be an issue of technique on my part, as I have only been playing the mandolin for a year. However, I found using picks with a rounder tip to help with pick noise, given how I play. Obviously your mileage may vary.

[BoxCarJoe]

I keep going back to Clayton picks.

https://www.steveclayton.com/guitarpicks.php

The Acetal (white ones) gives me a soft round sound using the shoulder and brighter using the tip.

The Ultem (yellowish) is louder and strums really well.

I'm still searching, but these are cheap and work well.

Oh yeah 1.2mm