Left Handed Hogwash?

[David Lewis]

Nobody asks for a left handed trumpet, you would get laughed at if you played the trombone lefthanded, why must I have a special version of a guitar or a mando just because I'm left handed. Y'all can think that all the creativity is in the picking hand but remember my dominant hand is doing the fingering, so chord changes are easier, I don't have to watch the fingerboard when playing melodies because I am using the hand with greater dexterity (given the root of that word by the way this is an ironic statetment). Also hammer ons pull-offs and on guitar bends are all easier for me.

I was wondering when this (rare) argument would come up. I think you should play comfortably and ergonomically, and wouldn't force anyone to change their handedness. . I remember when I was 8 with my new guitar. And my sister picked it up, upside down, and I told her she was wrong. And she said she wasn't: that's how she held it.

[Bertram Henze]

I think I have to draw this guy from the closet again...

[journeybear]

I can't help feeling that the author of the tutor was describing a 'general' situation

I think the author didn't put a moment's thought into this, but assumed that righty is right and that's that.

Y'all can think that all the creativity is in the picking hand but remember my dominant hand is doing the fingering, so chord changes are easier, I don't have to watch the fingerboard when playing melodies because I am using the hand with greater dexterity (given the root of that word by the way this is an ironic statement). Also hammer-ons pull-offs and on guitar bends are all easier for me.

I think playing an instrument involves developing dexterity in both hands and even ambidexterity. People talk all the time about hand-eye coordination, but there is also hand-hand coordination to consider. Both hands get roles assigned to them, and they must work in sync with each other to achieve the desired results. Yes, the conventional approach is to pick with the dominant hand and fret with the subordinate, but ultimately, handedness is less important than, um, togetherness.

FWIW, we're misusing the term "ambidextrous," according to the wiki:

Cross-dominance or mixed-handedness is the change of hand preference between tasks. This is common in the population with about a 30% prevalence.
Ambidexterity is exceptionally rare, although it can be learned. A truly ambidextrous person is able to do any task equally well with either hand. Those who learn it still tend to favor their originally dominant hand.

[Timbofood]

Thanks JB! You spend more time searching "wiki" than just about anyone I know. Do you type lefty or righty?

[3rdegree]

I am a lefty who was handed a right handed electric bass at age 14. I held and played it lefty for 5 years before picking up a guitar the same way. I got a chord book, turned IT upside down and learned my chords. (which are much easier to play that way in my opinion!) I took up the mandolin 3 years ago and of course play a right handed instrument turned upside down.

I asked John Reischmann recently if he had ever seen that before, he said a guy in Japan. Who is to say why instruments were strung that way to begin with? My way makes more sense to me, high strings on top, low strings on bottom. There is no chord, lick or song I can't play because of this style, and in fact it becomes easier to learn from a righty because it is like looking in a mirror! Here is a photo of me playing with a righty, each of us playing an "A" chop chord. Doesn't my form look more natural to your hand structure?

[journeybear]

Thanks JB! You spend more time searching "wiki" than just about anyone I know. Do you type lefty or righty?

I don't think I spend THAT much time at the wiki, but I'll be goldurned if I won't take a peek there if I'm curious about something. Especially if I'm in a conversation and it occurs to me that neither party is an expert, and it's entirely possible neither of us knows what the heck he's talking about! Really, looking stuff up can lead to less loose talk and more learning, both of which are nobel goals, indeed.

I right righty, type ambi, navigate lefty - no idea why. Somehow operating the touch pad on my laptop comes naturally with my left hand. It could have something to do with operating the TV/VCR remote with my right hand. On the desk top I use the mouse with my right hand. At my old job I started developing carpal tunnel syndrome, so I switched the mouse to my left hand for a few months. Took a little while to adjust, but it worked a charm.

I drive and bike lefty - no idea why my left hand is steadier - jump lefty, bat both ways, throw righty, shoot righty, and hug with both arms. Anything else?

[Timbofood]

Your points on nobility are well taken. Remember opinions are like noses, everybody has one and, some smell better than others.
All this lefty righty stuff is done with respect and good humor at least I hope so. If anyone has taken exception with anything I have said, I apologize. I offer my opinions and only my opinions and observations.

[JeffD]

There is a thread around, I cannot find it, where someone argues vehemently for left handed mandolins and guitars. I was looking because I thought he had some interesting points. All I remember is that he referenced a blog (external to the café) written by a left handed guitar player who is a strong and vocal advocate for the left handed. Very relevant here.

[JeffD]

For those who like to show one example to prove a point - could it be argued (with any credibility) that Chris Thile demonstrates the benefits of having the fretting hand be the dominant hand, and that if right handers aspire to really tear it up they would be advised to learn to play lefty?

No, huh?

[journeybear]

Nope. Both hands have to work together, and dominance has more to do with instrument orientation than dexterity. IMO, natch.

I mean, at this point, if I were to pick up a lefty-strung mandolin, I wouldn't be able to play it right off; I'd be left befuddled. Perhaps if I were given time - a lot of time, I reckon - I might be able to sort it out. I doubt I would get to a level that would be anywhere close to what I have achieved through spending as much time as I did in my formative years. That much muscle memory is ingrained in my mind as well as my hands.

People sort things out the way they do, and whatever they have come up with is natural to them. I'm used to what I've had to deal with, and I've found ways to make things work. Whatever solutions 3rdegree has found work for him, but may not translate to anyone else's approach. I'm awfully fond of the 2245 A chord, and working that barre on the lower two strings gives a powerful punch that may not have an equivalent in his approach. Conversely, there are things in his way that may be superior to the standard method. Who's to say which is better? It's an awfully time-worn phrase, but it's true: whatever works, works.

I offer my opinions and only my opinions and observations.

And if called to task on anything, Tim has always been kind enough to offer to spend some time in the corner. And I'll bet dollars to donuts he has a corner to his right AND his left.

[Timbofood]

I have more corners than Carter has pills!
Thanks JB.

[David L]

David L. ,,,not really,,,,a one note tremolo is mechanical,,just the right hand,,to add creative input,,you must use the left...

If a one note tremolo is mechanical, it's because you are not playing it musically. You can use dynamics and vary the speed, etc. I still contend that the fretting hand just allows the picking hand to make music. You can make music with just the picking hand (bluegrass bass on just open strings, tampura), but it's difficult to make music with just the fretting hand unless you are playing cranked-up electric guitar or a Chapman Stick.

[lflngpicker]

I am left handed and have played instruments Right Handed my entire life. As a left handed person, I don't think there is a stigma any longer for left-handedness like there once was. In the 60's in school, teachers wondered if I could use scissors, insisted I turn my paper tipped to the left like a right hander, though this caused me to write with a curled wrist to this day. What is interesting is that left handers have more accidents historically because of machinery having a right handed set up. Also, the incarceration rate is higher for left handers! I am not among those statistics!!

In the instrument world, I am with the author of this original post-- the left hand needs to be dexterous and left handedness is a benefit in that way, as much as the strumming of a new player might suffer a bit initially. I have found that often left handed people are artistic and often ambidextrous. Because the right brain controls the left side of the body and the right brain is the dominant side in artistic and musical endeavor, left handedness is often attributed to artistic proclivity and propensity. Many right handed musicians have much artistic inclination and are very likely have hemispherical balance in their neurological structures. Oh, I do go on, but my profession included educational leadership and research. Interesting subject by the original poster. Dr. Dan

[Tobin]

My way makes more sense to me, high strings on top, low strings on bottom. There is no chord, lick or song I can't play because of this style, and in fact it becomes easier to learn from a righty because it is like looking in a mirror! Here is a photo of me playing with a righty, each of us playing an "A" chop chord. Doesn't my form look more natural to your hand structure?

It sure does. Hey, maybe that's how we should help new mandolin players who are struggling with chop chords! Tell 'em to turn their dang mandolins over when it's time to chop. The addition of a ZZ-Top style spinning strap adapter would go a long way here.

Seriously, though, I have a question for those who play their instruments "upside down" like this. When strumming or chopping, it seems that you'd be hitting the high tinkly strings strongest on your downstroke. Do you adjust for this somehow when you want more of a bassy/boomy chop? Do you chop on the upstroke, or mute the A/E strings, or what?

[JeffD]

I wish I could find the thread, and/or the guitar blogger he referenced. They both viewed the suggestion to play right handed as a capitulation to the dominant culture, or something close to that.

[lflngpicker]

It sure does. Hey, maybe that's how we should help new mandolin players who are struggling with chop chords! Tell 'em to turn their dang mandolins over when it's time to chop. The addition of a ZZ-Top style spinning strap adapter would go a long way here.

Seriously, though, I have a question for those who play their instruments "upside down" like this. When strumming or chopping, it seems that you'd be hitting the high tinkly strings strongest on your downstroke. Do you adjust for this somehow when you want more of a bassy/boomy chop? Do you chop on the upstroke, or mute the A/E strings, or what?

Tobin and JeffD, I would think that literally playing a mandolin reversed (Hendrix style) would be a great way for an 4-string base player to learn the mandolin quickly since the strings upside down on a mandolin are exactly the same as on a bass.

[srtaylor]

I'm left handed and am comfortable only when holding and playing stringed instruments left-handed. I would've missed out on the last 43 years of playing music if some closed-minded adult had forced me to try to play my first guitar right-handed.

I accept the consequences of my handedness--which mostly involve fewer choices of instruments--with gratitude because making music, for me, is far better than the alternative. If you're having fun and meeting your own goals and expectations, it doesn't seem like there's really a wrong way to play.

[houseworker]

Tobin and JeffD, I would think that literally playing a mandolin reversed (Hendrix style) would be a great way for an 4-string base player to learn the mandolin quickly since the strings upside down on a mandolin are exactly the same as on a bass.

Hendrix style? Hendrix certainly favoured a R/H Strat, but always restrung it with the conventional left-handed string pattern.

[lflngpicker]

Hendrix style? Hendrix certainly favoured a R/H Strat, but always restrung it with the conventional left-handed string pattern.

Oops Houseworker! You are so right. Okay, just an example for illustration. Let's use Albert King then for the same purpose. Couldn't do better as a left-hander, though unconventionally strung if you will. Technically his guitar is strung traditionally and played upside down. McCartney and Hendrix in the mirror position. As a lefty, I figured "just pick up my Dad's guitar at 7 years old and play it," though it was right handed. How fun this lefty-righty discussion is. (Lefties in American baseball aren't allowed to play catcher, shortstop, third or second base, and this is strictly based on superstition. Ex.-- a lefty at short goes to his left up the middle and gloves the ball backhand being in perfect position to make the throw to first or second. The right hander must jump/turn into position in order to release a throw on a ball up the middle. Just the opposite is true for the right hander on a ball hit to the three hole with the advantage of throwing across the body to first without a needed turn.) Sports in our country are still decades behind in areas such as this.

[sblock]

If you're left handed, you have these four choices:

1) Learn to play the 'regular' instrument, just as a right-hander would. Chris Thile does that!
2) Flip the 'regular' instrument upside down, and play left-handed with the highest string uppermost. Jimi Hendrix did that!
3) Buy a specially made, left-handed instrument this is a mirror-image of the 'regular' one. Paul McCartney does that!
4) Give up and don't play.

Thile, Hendrix, and McCartney are all superb, left-handed musicians.

There are perfectly good reasons why folks pick (1), (2), or (3). For some people and some instruments, (1) is the only option -- there are no left-handed pianos, for example! And who is to say which hand does the more "important" work on the mandolin, anyway?! That's apples and oranges!

But options do exist for mandolins, and different left-handed people all have perfectly valid reasons for their choices, discussed earlier in this thread. Choices (2) and (3) present some more drawbacks than (1), it's true -- For example, I find it hard and unnatural to play "upside down" (but that's just me!), and it's very hard to find instructors who will teach that way! And there is a serious scarcity of decent left-handed mandolins compared with right-handed ones (an no Gibson F5 signed Loars made that were ever made, to my knowledge!).

But NO ONE should criticize a choice of either (2) or (3), I think. These people have their reasons for making these choices and they are perfectly OK. Some folks experience such left-hand dominance that they find it harder to switch to righty, and that's perfectly understandable. And the these choices beat choice (4) every time!!

As for me -- I'm left-handed -- I've gone with choice (1). But I have no illusions that this choice will ever make me as good as Chris Thile!

[farmerjones]

I wish I could find the thread, and/or the guitar blogger he referenced. They both viewed the suggestion to play right handed as a capitulation to the dominant culture, or something close to that.

Blasphemy, was the word the poster used. I remember the thread to this day.

[FLATROCK HILL]

Not sure if the link will work for anyone but me, but this is the thread: Lefty Mandolin from Oct 2013.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ight=BLASPHEMY

If the link doesn't work, a search for the word 'Blasphemy' will bring up the thread.
You have a good memory farmerjones!

[Emmett Marshall]

For the sake of credibility, here is what I was referencing in my original post:
"The Octave Mandolin Chord Bible," by Tobe A. Richards. page #5 para d.

Put into my own words, he's advising left handed people to not let anyone talk them into buying a right handed mandolin. That if one did so, it will NEVER work. It's really pretty clear, and really, in my opinion, pretty wrong. Maybe someone else here has this book?

Unfortunately, Amazon doesn't have the "Look Inside" feature for this book.

[JeffD]

Not sure if the link will work for anyone but me, but this is the thread: Lefty Mandolin from Oct 2013.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ight=BLASPHEMY
!

Yes that is it. Wow.

I remember thinking at the time that he was making a lot over a little. It was the first time I really thought about how handedness is really a large part of who we are, and it deserves at the very least a serious pause for consideration. Whether you agree or not, what he was making a lot out of was not little.

I am not trying to re-open an old debate, or to specifically advocate for his point of view. I just bring it up because not everyone considers it hogwash, and what ever decision one makes, it is a decision to be taken seriously, and it might help to be at least exposed to a wide range of opinions.

[houseworker]

Flip the 'regular' instrument upside down, and play left-handed with the highest string uppermost. Jimi Hendrix did that!

No he didn't.