Going pro?

[k0k0peli]

Hey amateurs: Do you dream of a music career?

Way back in my high school days (during the Jurassic era) I was sort of in a band. I left -- they really didn't need a dulcimer player. The band went on to have a monster hit that kick-started a major music genre, and then succumbed to touring and managers. Watching their downfall was saddening and enlightening. There's more money in managing than playing.

Some years later I was a street-corner git-picking-and-singing busker. That was for fun and extra cash, not enough to make a living. I had no illusions about a career. Software engineering eventually paid the bills.

But how about you? Do you want to go pro? Do you think you could survive?

[mandocrucian]

[Mandobart]

There are so many levels of "pro"; most people I believe think of a pro musician as a well known performer with several albums out, name recognition, festival closer, etc. But the guys being paid to play weddings, clubs, give lessons, host open mics, etc. are professional too. I guess I could be called pro in that I occasionally get paid to play music.

I have no desire to try and support my family, finance retirement, or even pay for my musical instrument and gear addiction solely from a performance income. Maybe it's my age, my high paying day job with benefits, my assessment of my own ability, the limited appeal of the music I choose to play, the competition; but most of us probably have a better chance of becoming an astronaut or winning the lottery than supporting a middle class American lifestyle by performing music.

[Tobin]

I think I'm happy just playing with friends, family, and jam groups. I would like to play out more, and do more gigs. But doing it for a living? No. I think about it a lot when my day job as an engineer/manager gets frustrating. But I like my paycheck, benefits, and the security that comes with it.

I don't want my love of music to become work. It's my escape from work.

[MikeEdgerton]

I followed that dream when I was young. Left my home town, moved to Los Angeles, damn near starved to death. Most professional musicians don't ever have chart topping singles they simply work at making music be that playing gigs or teaching or what have you.

[LadysSolo]

I started college as a music major, at home I was a "big fish in a little pond." I got to college, and quickly discovered there were many people much better. I changed majors and came back home. I still enjoy playing multiple instruments (piano, organ, harpsichord, guitar, violin, recorder) and am now learning (and so far) enjoying mandolin. Go pro - not so much......

[JeffD]

I have had a healthy ambition of getting real good, defined differently every so often, but I never really seriously (in a non-fantasy way) considered "going pro".

And time has made me more certain of that. I mean, even if with a crystal ball you were to say I have a real good shot at it, I am not interested. (What I mean to say is that knowing the chances are nill that I could make any serious money in music is not the primary reason I don't pursue it.)

Several reasons for my decision.

1 I enjoy playing with people way more than playing for people.

2 I enjoy my present employment a whole lot, and I have been very very good at it a lot longer than I have had any competence with the mandolin.

3 Going pro, I have figured out, requires a lot of skills and talents beyond being able to play the mandolin. (Duh!) I don't have and don't relish the work involved in getting and sharpening those skills.

4 I think if mandolinning were my livelihood, it would gradually lose its attraction. Especially as getting better at mandolinning would not be the most important thing I should be doing to get and stay prepared.

5 And I would need a hobby. Oscar Wilde said you shouldn't marry your mistress, as it leaves a vacancy in that position.


As I have said elsewhere, my present goal, stated succinctly, is to be more and more fun to play music with. That too requires some extra non-mandolin skills, but it seems much more worth it to acquire them.

[Chief]

I've been a pro for almost 40 years. And also have had a day job all that time, because I like to eat, own a home, and go on cool vacations and such. Probably like most musicians, I've had the dream of being discovered and making it big, but it was never a huge priority with me. I've enjoyed a long career playing all types of music and getting payed for it. It was a great part time job that I enjoyed doing, and allowed me to get my creative side out.

[allenhopkins]

I am a "pro," if by that you mean someone who (generally) gets paid to play music.

I am not a "pro," if by that you mean someone who supports himself and his dependents through playing music.

As a retired civil servant, I have a decent pension, which pays the bills. I play around 200 gigs a year, almost all "small potatoes" -- seniors' facilities, historical societies, regional festivals, private parties. I gross in the low five figures doing this. The money goes partially to pay music-related expenses, including payments to other musicians with whom I work, partially to fund my ongoing instrument acquisitions, and partially into a "rainy day fund." When I totaled my car back in 2013, it rained a bit, and I tapped my music fund to partially underwrite my current Honda Element.

My self-coined aphorism is, "Music is a great mistress, but a lousy wife." If I'd ever felt I needed to support wife, kids and self by playing music, I would have approached the thing I love best doing, with a great deal more anxiety and sense of urgency. Probably would have had a hard time doing it in my present location; don't know many Rochester musicians who can make a living doing acoustic music.

One has to be prepared for a lot of uncertainty, if one chooses music as a career -- especially the type of music most of us play. Prepare to move, prepare to suffer through recurrent "dry spells" when not much is happening, prepare to make all kinds of compromises about what we play and where we play it. It's hard to make a living wage doing what many are willing to do for free -- another proverb I picked up along the way. Health insurance, retirement savings, a regular schedule, stable familial relationships -- all these can be much "iffier" when you try to live on music earnings.

It's a bit surprising, and disheartening, when I'm asked to play benefits, or make contributions, to aid other musicians who I consider to be established, successful, and well-known. Even in those cases, apparently there's a thin margin between a more or less comfortable existence, and economic insecurity. A single illness or accident, especially if it interrupts the performance schedule...

When I had that car accident, breaking my wrist, I had to cancel 40 booked gigs, turn down a dozen others. But I wasn't depending on those gigs to pay the rent or buy food. If I had been, things could have gotten pretty scary. Just a thought.

[Mike Arakelian]

WhenI was MUCH younger and starting out in a career, I thought that when I retired I'd want to work part time in a hardware store (the good old mom and pop kind), and play my guitar (then) and guitar/mandolin (now) on weekends. I played in gigging bands in high school and college to earn a few dollars and thought that was fun. Over the years I've known a lot of professional musicians (not the famous kind), and have seen how committed they are to their music, but just how hard it is for them to be able to earn enough money to make ends meet. I've looked at the touring schedule of some very good bands that are a enjoying a modicum of success, but still no where near the big time, and wonder where they get the energy to keep up the pace.

Thankfully, playing professionally was never a consideration. I don't have the talent, and would never have been able to provide for my family. I am retired, don't work part time in a hardware store, but do play my guitars and mandolins a lot with friends and jam groups on a regular basis...couldn't be happier!

[Austin Bob]

I feel like I've struck a happy medium. I have a day job that pays enough for a nice "professional" level instrument collection. I play in a choir that allows me to play live once a week, and learn new songs during practice. I jam with friends and play an occasional pick up gig here or there, but that's about it. I have no desire to try and eek out a living through music.

If you have true talent as a singer or a songwriter, there's a slight chance of making it. But I'm just another run of the mill sideman, so there's no need to kid myself.

[Beardog]

I want to play as well as a full-time, touring pro, but that's it. I probably make more in a month at my day job than most "pros" make in a year. I jam with several folks who are good enough to play professionally, but they prefer to keep music as a hobby, not a livelihood. All of us who frequent festivals get into jams with teachers, lawyers, general contractors, pharmacists, etc., who are as good (if not better) than 90% of anybody playing as a "pro" on the stage. I like to think of them as "sleepers"!

[JeffD]

All of us who frequent festivals get into jams with teachers, lawyers, general contractors, pharmacists, etc., who are as good (if not better) than 90% of anybody playing as a "pro" on the stage.

Very common. Playing well is necessary, but not sufficient. Not nearly. I more and more think being able to play your instrument well is less than half of what you need to succeed in music, defined here as successful enough to have performing as your primary income.

[David Lewis]

When I was supplementing my music with 'real' work I just wanted to play music. I now teach music history and gig. Could I earn more? Always. Am I happy? Undoubtedly. Music isn't something you want to do; it's something you need to do. I've enjoyed reading all your experiences here.

[allenhopkins]

...All of us who frequent festivals get into jams with teachers, lawyers, general contractors, pharmacists, etc., who are as good (if not better) than 90% of anybody playing as a "pro" on the stage. I like to think of them as "sleepers"!

Wasn't that the deal with the Seldom Scene? Starling was a doctor, Gray a cartographer, Eldridge had some other professional job, Duffey was doing luthiery and instrument repairs. Dunno about Auldridge.

Any-hoo, I've posted this vid two other times, I think. Still makes the point...

[MikeEdgerton]

They all had day jobs and kept them.

[DHopkins]

I am a "pro," if by that you mean someone who (generally) gets paid to play music.

I am not a "pro," if by that you mean someone who supports himself and his dependents through playing music.

As a retired civil servant, I have a decent pension, which pays the bills. I play around 200 gigs a year, almost all "small potatoes" -- seniors' facilities, historical societies, regional festivals, private parties. I gross in the low five figures doing this. The money goes partially to pay music-related expenses, including payments to other musicians with whom I work, partially to fund my ongoing instrument acquisitions, and partially into a "rainy day fund."

I have to agree with almost everything Allen said. All of that applies to me as well. I never envisioned myself on the stage of the Grand Ole Opry and at 71, that's not likely to ever happen unless they have a show featuring 71-year-old mandolin pickers with beards who live in Georgia, drive a Kia Sorento, were born in April and have cockatiels. I do make a little money at it and it supports my MAS and Starbucks and golfing habits. On my tax return, I list my occupation as "musician" because that's the only paying work I do and I do deduct strings, mandolins, set-up, etc. every year.

Our band has had a regular gig for over 3 years now. In addition, we do the parties, wedding receptions, barn raisings, snake stompings and benefits. We've recently put out our second CD. If, for whatever reason, I had to give it up tomorrow....well, I had a good run and enjoyed it.

(DISCLAIMER: Allen and I are not related, as far as I know, and I'm sure it's with glee that Allen confirms that fact.)

[Big Joe]

I was in the music industry full time for many years. Earlier as a performer and ultimately lutherie and management. I liked building and repair because I could work with the best in the business, play with the greats in most genres, and sleep in my own bed most nights. I loved every minute of it, but now I'm old and retired and I get to play just for fun. I play more now than I have in years. Sometimes just around the house, sometimes jams, normally play lead guitar or bass at church. It was my passion as a kid, and still is..

[k0k0peli]

Of course there's more to being a music professional than stardom and groupies and such. My late mother-in-law was an esteemed musician, a seminary-trained performer, teacher, choral director, and longtime administrator of an international organization of music pros -- but that didn't pay the bills. Her criminal-investigator husband's salary covered that. But music was her career.

Many career musicians (that I know of) are what we'd call guild crafters -- orchestral players, studio musicians, teachers when not performing -- and those gigging at weddings, bar mitzvahs, such social events. The teacher at a local rural elementary school here was organist (won an Emmy, too) in a seminal 1960's garage-rock band. Those guys'n'gals playing the county fair circuits, the club circuits (I first saw Kansas as a bar band in the NCO club at Ft Riley); those in Vegas and Broadway and similar pit bands (some are members here); music directors for all kinds of shows; anyone whose day job is music -- these are the pros IMHO.

[Bluegrassrules]

Hello all, I have lived my entire adult live as a full time musician. 26 years in all...so far. I am proud to say it can be done. I am debit free, live in a bueatiful home that will be paid off next year, and want for nothing. I am not famous or rich but who is? It's great work if you can get it but boy...hustle,hustle is the name of the game.

[Randi Gormley]

When I was young, I had no specific ambition at all. I figured I'd eventually become a teacher, because that's what people who were good at English did. Anything else was just a hobby. I drifted into my current profession as a stopgap after I pretty nearly failed chemistry in college and couldn't become a veterinarian ... all the time I played music -- well, it was just one of those things you did. I didn't even consider music as a career because the music I listened to was classical, and I knew how much discipline was needed to even become a fair player. One of my girlfriends was going to be a musician (concert musician -- none of my friends had aspirations to become rock stars) and I saw the amount of work she put in and the lessons with the professional and the contests she was always enrolled in ... to this day, I secretly feel that someone is going to tap me on the shoulder and tell me I need to stop having fun at work and assume the position of that teacher I was fated to become ... finding my current group and gigging with them is way more "professional musician" than I ever thought would happen in this lifetime.

I know a fair amount of musicians who are expert players -- and all of them have "real " jobs. Arguably the best sligo fiddler in this country is an attorney I had a chance to interview once and he said his parents insisted that he and his sister (also a fiddler) train for "real" jobs, that they felt music would never pay enough to support a family. He's played in a bunch of bands, has CDs, does the workshop circuit, the concert circuit -- but being an attorney pays his bills. Another world-class musician I know would love to be able to support himself with music -- he has an international following -- but when he tried it, he couldn't make enough even to live on. He's a woodworker by trade in the construction industry and that's what he fell back on. Being a professional musician, even at the guild level, takes a lot of sacrifices and a lot of luck. Like any other profession, there are always up and coming people who push out the "old." You have to have an amazing collection of skills to be able to survive for any time at all and being able to play your instrument is only one.

[Emmett Marshall]

I've always dreamed of a music "career", but never made it a "goal". I just play for the love of music. I tell myself I am a "pro" because I used to get a few bucks busking with my sax, and I've also played while wearing a nice suit at New Year's Eve parties. Everyone loves "Auld Lang Syne" on an alto sax.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Well,for me,there are 'full time' pros.who do nothing else for a living & 'part time' pros.who also have a day job. I really don't know any numbers re. 'how many of which type',but i'd bet that unless they have another side to their pro.status,like recording & producing,that most pros.are of the 'part time' variety.
If by 'pro.' we mean a musician that get's paid for playing,then i was a 'pro.' musician for around 6 years playing banjo back in the late 1960s to mid.1970s. In the UK there was no chance at all of being a 'full time' pro.unless you were a teacher as well.Just playing would have you on the bread line in no time flat !.
I have to say,that playing for other people was one of the most enjoyable things i ever did,especially here in the UK where Bluegrass music was little known about & even less 'heard'. Even at age 70,i'd still join a band to play if there were the musicians around (& good enough) to form one. I can still play banjo to a high pro.level & i could now throw the mandolin into the mix.
To make a real living out of playing music,IMHO,you have to be an incredible musician with more than one facet to your playing. In the mandolin world i'm thinking of Chris Thile / Mike Marshall / John Reischman & other top players. Either that,or a top flight Classical musican,or,as we know a 'pop' musician playing a popular genre of music that has a very wide appeal.
For those folk who have the chance to play with a band as 'pro.' musicians,i'd say ''go for it'' every time,but don't loose sight of reality & think that you're going to make mega-bucks. Unless you come up with something quite unique that nobody else is doing & that 'lots' of people like,you won't. You can however have a decent add-on to your day job wages - & remember to pay your taxes !!. At one point i was earning 2 to 3 times my day job wage by playing 7 nights a week.This was during the great Folk Music boom in the late 1960's. That entailed travelling 100's of miles around the North & Midlands of the UK & i wish i could do it all over again,
Ivan

[Jim]

I came from a town with a Great music School ( Bloomington IN) I played and jammed with people but never thought I'd be good enough to be a "pro" because everyone that played around there was so good and highly trained/educated. Then I moved to the Denver area in 1976 and quickly got a gig playing guitar in a country western dance band playing DAV, VFW, Elks ect. where people danced most Friday and Saturday nights. I made more money for 6 hours work on a Friday or saturday than I did all week on my minimum wage day ( night shift) job. I thought I might be able to do this as my main job , but as a backup plan, I got my license as a Radiographer. Then my girlfriend got pregnant and working as a full time musician seemed a risky choice and I worked x-ray full time. Still played bar bands for a little on the side but now made as much for 6 hours as I made in a day. Now I play a few jobs a month and for 6 hours I bring home about what I make in 2 hours at my day ( and night) job. The thing is that the money I make playing music has stayed the same for 40 years where my other employment has gone up. It's a sad comment on the state of live music and it seems nobody dances anymore ( in the 70s we could fill the floor playing a Polka) I think I made the right choice but have always wondered where I'd be if I'd played music exclusively.

[JeffD]

Two seemingly contradictory things.

One is - if you have the chops of a Chris Thile, for example, there is no doubt you could make it as a mandolin player.

But - there are many many many mandolin players with professional level chops, but perhaps not a stratospheric talent like Thile, that are making reasonable to great livings in music, and in mandolin.

(The specific names are irrelevant - pick your own mandolin super star, admit that there are others making a living in mandolin though perhaps not as super a super star, and there you go.)

My point is that while climbing the latter to success, one might feel "hey, I gotta play like Thile to get there, so I will work my chops and become stratospheric", when, in fact, one may already be very good and getting much much better may not be the most important thing to be working on.