1917 Gibson f4 set up problems

[TonyF-4]

As a new member, I have had lots of help and now I need one more; I am a banjo player and inherited a real nice original 1917 f4. I had a professional do the set up so I would have a good playable mandolin.
The problem I have is that the strings are VERY hard to fret! (compared to a banjo) and the sound is often muted because of it.
This mandolin has the non-adjustable bridge and I was wondering if an adjustable bridge would help. The action doesn't seem too high, but it just seems like it shouldn't be so hard to get a decent sound from a well made instrument.
Any help would be appreciated.

[Tobin]

It's hard to say how much of this is the instrument itself, or your lack of familiarity with mandolins. I assume, of course, that you don't play any other mandolins since you mentioned you're a banjo player. Do you know of someone locally who has a well set up mandolin that you could compare it to?

Mandolins, of course, are more difficult to fret than banjos. This is the nature of the beast.

I'll be honest, though. Even though my 1918 F4 is well set up, it still is difficult for me to play when compared to my modern mandolins with thinner necks, larger frets, and radiused fretboards. The old Gibsons with their fat necks and tiny square frets are not exactly the easiest of all mandolins to play. They're worth it, though, for their vintage sound. But I wouldn't particularly recommend them to beginners.

Anyway, going to an adjustable bridge is only going to help you if you need to lower the action. If your action is already in the ideal range, it's not going to do anything for you. Can you tell us the height of the G and E strings at the 12th fret?

[lenf12]

Hard to fret mandolins usually indicate a problem with the nut slots not being deep enough. Was the "professional" who did your setup a mandolin pro or a guitar pro? Some skills are transferable between both instruments, some are not. Are you able to post a good close up photo of the nut?

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Ken Waltham]

A 1917 F4 should play and feel as good as any modern mandolin with a proper set up. They typically fret super easy and should play like butter.
As Len says.. something's amiss with your setup.

[Timbofood]

Agree, sounds like set up issues as well as the "nature" of having a pair of comparatively more resistant strings to fret. A banjo is under less string tension and only has the single string to deal with. I also agree that the age of the instrument should not have any bearing on playability. Guitar guys understand the concept of setup on mandolins but, unless they have some experience, the feel is different so a first or second time set up will not be as refined as subsequent ones.
A buddy of mine works at Heritage, can't do set up for beans,I love him dearly but, he just doesn't get the fact that set up is as important as anything else.

[TonyF-4]

The height of the strings is about 3 mm at the 12th fret.

[TonyF-4]

f4 MOP nut

[TonyF-4]

I think I put this reply in the wrong place...The photos show the MOP nut on my f4. Like I said, I hope this will shed some light on my problem of being hard to fret. (Or maybe I'm just a whimpy banjo player and need to suck it up!)

[TonyF-4]

I'll get with a local teacher and see what he thinks...
Thanks for the advice.

[houseworker]

Looking at those pictures, I'm wondering if the G strings are a bit high. I don't know what strings you've used. If it's the standard J74s it might be worth dropping down to J73s for a while. The strings may sit a bit lower in the slots.

I've stuck with J73s on my own F-4; they suit it well.

[lenf12]

Looking at those pictures, I'm wondering if the G strings are a bit high.

I agree with houseworker. The G strings are sitting very high in the nut slots. So are the rest of the strings I would guess. A typical setup would have the wound strings sitting in the slots with about half of the diameter exposed. The plain A and E strings can sit a little deeper in the slots. If you put a capo on the 3rd fret and measure the clearance of the strings over the 1st fret, they should just barely clear the 1st fret by a few thousands. Also, I measured my action at the 12th fret and it's much closer to 1.5 mm or about half of the value you measure on your mandolin. I'm not surprised that you find this mandolin difficult to fret. It needs more (or better) attention.



Len B.
Clearwater, FL