Vintage Gretsch "Artist" Mandolin

[leslierig]

I am trying - with no luck - to find information about this Gretsch mandolin. I am guessing it is an early model. The pearl covering on the headstock is beautiful as is the engraved silver plate on the back of the headstock. Anyone have a source where I might find more about the model, age and value?

[allenhopkins]

Very similar mandolin pictured on page 2 of this thread. I guessed at the time it was Harmony-built, since Harmony made some instruments for Gretsch. There's a link in that old thread to another thread where there's a very similar-appearing Harmony mandolin.

The "pearl covering" on the headstock is Pearloid, a celluloid plastic with a mother-of-pearl appearance, sometimes referred to as "mother-of-toilet-seat." It was used on musical instruments starting in the 1920's, for fingerboards, pickguards, and headstock overlays.

It may be a 1920's-'30's model, I'd guess, and not an expensive instrument. No luck finding when Gretsch started using the "Artist" designation on its instruments, but the general appearance of the mandolin seems to indicate that vintage. Gretsch started in the 1890's, so the company could have been in business 30-40 years when this one was made.

[leslierig]

I was just reading Harmony history and they did not make Gretsch mandolins until 1950s into the 1970s. I agree with you that this matches more closely with those produced in the 20s and 30s. It is hard to believe that the Gretsch history and listed models made is not available somewhere?

[MikeEdgerton]

I think you'll find that what is presented as Harmony history on the web isn't always true. There are pages upon pages of wrong information about the company. Are there any numbers stamped inside that mandolin? They might be very faint. if you move the a flashlight around they will at times pop out.

[MikeEdgerton]

Gretsch was outsourcing the building of mandolins under both the Gretsch name and the Rex brandname early in the 1900's (maybe a little earlier). The Chicago builders built for almost everyone and they built many mandolins with no brand names on them. In some cases the mandolins they built with brandnames get a little stickier. I believe you mandolin was built by whomever built this mandolin on Jake Wildwood's site. Jake ID's that as a Harmony. He's usually pretty good. Yours shares some features with this one, and I realize yours does not have the cant top. I think yours is a little earlier than the 30's because of the tuners with the plate in the back. There's a good chance it was Harmony built but it could have also been the cross town folks at Lyon & Healy. The only true way to ID something like this is to find either a branded instrument or a catalog from one of the known builder that is the same instrument. Beyond that it's all educated guesswork.

[MikeEdgerton]

TO kind of put the whole Gretsch mandolin thing in perspective, he's a Gretsch labeled mandolin built by Kay in Chicago. in thirties-forties. I'm sure they probably don't list that at all anywhere but here is a known Kay mandolin with a Gretsch label. By the way, NFI, it's on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Gret...item1c59d8e462

[Frank Rowe]

It so happens that I have an identical Gretsh Artist mandolin, given to me by my grandfather during the sixties. He got it from a photo job somewhere in the West End of Boston at a music trade show he was taking pictures of for a music dealer. At the end of the show they couldn't pay him so they offered him this thing as barter. He told me that it was part of a set: guitar, banjo and mandolin with similar cosmetics. I never tracked down a guitar that matched this look, but Gruhn's Vintage Guitars, 1991, has an insight to offer. In their description of the Gretsh Broadcaster flattop, 1933-1936, the description of the headstock reads 'celluloid peghead veneer, Gretsh in block letters(as in, not the usual italic) 'Artist' vertically on peghead, peghead tapers to point on top, natural mahogany finish.' That's a pretty spot-on description of the mandolin cosmetics. In minor differences between our mandolins, I note that the G in Gretsch on mine has a 'chin' and the 'r' top loop connects to the vertical line. Yours has the logos in gold, mine just in glorious wood burn black. Also the pick guard of mine is long gone. I will be happy to generate a photo when I figure out how to post it!

[Mark Gunter]

It so happens that I have an identical Gretsh Artist mandolin, given to me by my grandfather during the sixties. He got it from a photo job somewhere in the West End of Boston at a music trade show he was taking pictures of for a music dealer. At the end of the show they couldn't pay him so they offered him this thing as barter. He told me that it was part of a set: guitar, banjo and mandolin with similar cosmetics. I never tracked down a guitar that matched this look, but Gruhn's Vintage Guitars, 1991, has an insight to offer. In their description of the Gretsh Broadcaster flattop, 1933-1936, the description of the headstock reads 'celluloid peghead veneer, Gretsh in block letters(as in, not the usual italic) 'Artist' vertically on peghead, peghead tapers to point on top, natural mahogany finish.' That's a pretty spot-on description of the mandolin cosmetics. In minor differences between our mandolins, I note that the G in Gretsch on mine has a 'chin' and the 'r' top loop connects to the vertical line. Yours has the logos in gold, mine just in glorious wood burn black. Also the pick guard of mine is long gone. I will be happy to generate a photo when I figure out how to post it!

Frank, it would be interesting to see pictures of yours. The person who originally posted this topic last year may not browse here regularly, as this is the only topic they've posted to, but your information could be helpful to others as well. I(f you're on a PC, posting pictures won't be too difficult. Just use the button in the toolbar when you are in a reply box. In the Quick Reply interface, it is the third little button from the right side of the toolbar; looks sort of like a little image of a tree surrounded by a box. Use the Browse button to choose an image on your computer, then click the Upload File(s) text.

[Frank Rowe]

Frank, it would be interesting to see pictures of yours. The person who originally posted this topic last year may not browse here regularly, as this is the only topic they've posted to, but your information could be helpful to others as well. I(f you're on a PC, posting pictures won't be too difficult. Just use the button in the toolbar when you are in a reply box. In the Quick Reply interface, it is the third little button from the right side of the toolbar; looks sort of like a little image of a tree surrounded by a box. Use the Browse button to choose an image on your computer, then click the Upload File(s) text.

/Users/frankrowe/Desktop/DSCN6495-1.JPG

[Frank Rowe]

[Frank Rowe]

Frank, it would be interesting to see pictures of yours. The person who originally posted this topic last year may not browse here regularly, as this is the only topic they've posted to, but your information could be helpful to others as well. I(f you're on a PC, posting pictures won't be too difficult. Just use the button in the toolbar when you are in a reply box. In the Quick Reply interface, it is the third little button from the right side of the toolbar; looks sort of like a little image of a tree surrounded by a box. Use the Browse button to choose an image on your computer, then click the Upload File(s) text.

Here's my first attempt: this is an apple, and I'm a pc person so here goes.

[Frank Rowe]

Upon closer examination, the logo is actually a gold color after all, disguised by many decades of tarnish.Attachment 149809

[MikeEdgerton]

That's the same engraved Waverly tailpiece cover they used on their mandolin banjos and some tenors. Frank, are there any numbers stamped inside this?

[Frank Rowe]

That's the same engraved Waverly tailpiece cover they used on their mandolin banjos and some tenors. Frank, are there any numbers stamped inside this?

I cannot see any numbers or markings of any kind in line of sight inside the body. In the next day or so, I will take pictures with the engraved headstock plate on the back and the tailpiece cover both removed for a detailed anatomical examination. The last time I looked in there was almost fifty years ago, and I didn't know what to look for back then. When I do, I'll post 'em!

[s1m0n]

=I didn't want to hear it when I first posted to this forum about my "30s luthier*" mandolin and discovered that it might have been the deluxe (1 pce mahogany back & sides, solid spruce top) version of a factory made Harmony with a custom headstock fancied up (in my case chip-carved) by a regionally-known luthier.

See these threads,and note how similar the body shape is. The one major diff I can find is that my mando has a one-piece back, with no central join. The teardrop shape, the tone hole shapes, & the binding all look very, very familiar.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...=arthur+hensel
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...=arthur+hensel

Mind you, mine looks a decade or three older, but made to very similar plans. I hope yours, once you've played it in, sounds as good as mine does. If you keep at it, it might not be the last vintage mandolin you own, but it's an excellent beginner/intermediate axe. 80+ years after it was built, my mando still has perfect geometry and sounds, now that I've been playing it so much, terrific. If you're buying a vintage instrument, never discount how much better it can sound for having been regularly played. Like, 20-40% better. More than enough to dramatically skew a sale.

*Toronto's Arthur Hensel. It's starting to look like he built his well (if regionally respected) guitars, but might have farmed out the mandolins to harmony, albeit ordering the top of the line woods & technique when he did so. The trade-mark chip carved headstock could have been farmed out to an apprentice, but it still added a bunch of production time but no musical value to an instrument. Hensel must have been able to charge a premium for instruments he could claim to have worked on.

[MikeEdgerton]

Yes, this body shape was pretty common among at least three of the major Chicago builders and the relationship between them was pretty intertwined. Couple that with an industry that seemed to have no problems outsourcing certain instruments and we arrive here decades later trying to figure out who actually made them regardless of the name on the headstock. Some like this one are easy to identify. Others like the the one in this thread are not quite as easy to ID.

[Frank Rowe]

Here is a closeup of the tailpiece with cover removed. I will also try to post one of the back of the headstock with the plate removed.

[Frank Rowe]

As you can see, there is nothing special about the tailpiece that springs out, but the tailpiece cover and headstock backplate are elaborately engraved. The head plate seems to have been done with a hand-held hobby engraver. The engraving work on the tailpiece cover is much neater. The backs of both covers are blank, and the metal looks to me like 'german silver,' a brass-nickel alloy that takes a high polish.There is no sign of a truss rod, but this has been fully strung and tuned with the same strings for about fifty years, and still more or less stays in tune even after languishing in its purple felt lined black cardboard case for decades at a time. In my family, who knew nothing about stringed instruments, this instrument was referred to as 'the tiple.' When I pointed out that tiples have at least ten strings I was told to shut up. Similarly, my Supertone Mandolinetto was referred to as 'the ukulele,' despite having four mysterious extra keys and a label inside that said 'Supertone Mandolin.' Once in a while, my grandfather, Walter A. Washburn (no relation to the music dealers that I know of) would play one of the two, strung as ukes with nylon fish line, and regale us with his repertoire of bawdy First World War navy songs (Oh never let a sailor an inch above your knee...!) He gave me this
Gretsch on a visit after I played it for him, because his arthritis was too far advanced for him to play any more.