"The Loar 700" Re-invent/Rescue and Martin R18 Rescue

[Perry Babasin]

I've been working on a '34 Martin R18 for over a year now and it is coming together nicely. When my son found it it was a basket-case. The neck had jack-knifed into the top destroying the neck block and punching a gaping hole in the top. To make it worse, before we got it somebody filled the gap with Elmer's white glue and tried to force the body straight. It looked like this:

Here are a few more pictures of the Martin.


Anyway the Martin is coming along nicely. I have been wiping a shellac color glaze on the mahogany. I just need to do the top sunburst and varnish the whole thing.

I have a question... The frets are square bars not rounded on the top edge. Do they need to be crowned? I think they are the original frets and I don't think they have ever been crowned.

[Perry Babasin]

Part two... I found a derelict Loar 700 on ebay without any hardware and bought it to refurbish and refinish. The 600 built in 2011 I had previously reworked is a wonderful player, and so I am very excited to hear the 700. This one built in 2013 had a much thicker finish and I'm afraid it was probably a Poly finish. Anyway it's off now, and scooped too! I'm anxious to play it!

[Jeff Mando]

Good work, Perry! The back view of the R18 looks a lot like an OM/000 body. I might be tempted to convert it to a flattop and have a '34 OM-18. I know that was done a lot in the 60's when somebody would find an old 30's Brazilian Rosewood archtop Martin.

[MikeEdgerton]

That was a common conversion of Martin arched top guitars.

[Wes Brandt]

I'm pretty sure those were OOO/OM backs and sides.

[Perry Babasin]

I was really tempted to convert it, but it actually belongs to my son (34) and we have been working on it together. It's really been a fun challenging project and he is really jazzed! So, what about crowning the frets? I'm guessing that they didn't. They aren't like frets, I guess this was the last year that Martin used these square "bars" as frets

[MikeEdgerton]

They are bar frets indeed. Check out this article on Frank Ford's www.frets.com (what else?) if you haven't already done so.

[Perry Babasin]

Thanks Mike! Duh, why didn't I think of that! Perfect information...

[tbrahan]

Perry,

That is an extremely clean job of stripping the finish. Other than elbow grease, do you have any secrets to getting through that thick plastic finish?

Tom

[Skip Kelley]

Nice work, Perry!

[Perry Babasin]

Tom - A couple of years ago I did a 2011 "Loar" 600 and was pleased that the finish came off very easily mostly scraping and sanding with a little carefully applied lacquer thinner to soften. The finish on this 2013 700 on the other hand, was very thick and much harder to scrape.

I had to use very strong paint stripper (rated for poly and epoxy) applied very carefully as it will eat the binding as well as the finish. You are right that the most important element is the elbow grease but the stripper helps a lot. Work slowly with small areas.

I saw a soy product in another thread that I want to try in the future and apparently it doesn't touch the binding... I have several scrapers from Stew-Mac, a bunch of improvised sanding and scraping tools and a trusty pocket knife (like Bill). This is my 5th mandolin refinish and I have it down to a pretty quick process.

[Perry Babasin]

Thanks Skip, your mandolins are awesome!! I haven't built from scratch yet, but I sure love re-building, repairing and refurbishing them, in my spare time that is. I'm going to retire in a year or so, and will have a lot more time to devote to playing, recording and working on them!!

[nordian]

Have you considered leaving the 700 as a blonde or amber?

[Perry Babasin]

Funny you should mention that, hadn't really thought about that until I saw the wood. I was thinking blonde or honey amber, I've seen some really nice Collings done that way and they are beautiful. I think this one would look really nice!

[John Arnold]

I'm pretty sure those were OOO/OM backs and sides.

The R-18's and R-17's are 00 size. The 000/OM size Martin archtops are the C-1 (mahogany), the C-2 and C-3 (rosewood). I have not heard of any converted R-18's, but it is a possibility. However, the early R-18's were pressed tops, and the rim has some arching that would have to be removed to install a true flat top.

So, what about crowning the frets? I'm guessing that they didn't. They aren't like frets, I guess this was the last year that Martin used these square "bars" as frets

The frets would have been crowned from the factory. I suspect they have been filed down. That is not unusual, because many players do not like high bar frets because it makes it difficult to slide on them .

[Perry Babasin]

Another question. The back and sides and neck are an easy finish, in fact I'm almost ready for the Tru-Oil, my problem is the top.

It is very blotchy and streaked with some wild looking "Bear-Claw" markings near the bottom. I have to color the patch piece to match the old spruce and it is going to be a nearly stock sunburst when I'm done. I'm concerned about the streaks. Any ideas? I've read here that you could seal the wood with a light clear before applying color. The markings seem to be from years of abuse and exposure. There was almost no finish on the guitar, it had worn off or was taken off by the well-meaning "repair person" who had this guitar before us. Way before us from the looks of it!!

[MysTiK PiKn]

Wild looking bearclaw - I stare at it and I see images form, and then change, repeat, repeat - and no I am not blitzed outta my tree. Stone cold clean and sober. The images are all good - quite fascinating. Maybe just the light. I also like the look of the unfinished top, streaks and all.
Thanks for the show.

I wondered about the wood on the Loar700. Spec on website says AAA flame maple and AAA spruce. I own one. I have never seen an unfinished one. Do you think it's good wood? any comments. Do you plan on thinning it?

[Perry Babasin]

Hey MysTiK! Thanks, that Martin is quite amazing, it is for my son and he wants it finished with a sunburst but I'm going to try and keep it lighter so you can see the grain in the dark areas.

For "The Loar" I think the wood and construction is very good, and very thick as a brick (compared to the 600 I did previously). I know it is thick to allow for the lack of tonebars, but I'm betting they went way thicker than they needed to, to avoid any potential sinkage.

With that in mind, I actually have been "enhancing" the established recurve and sharpening up the volutes and such as I go, absolutely, carefully and strategically thinning. At this point my technique is 2 parts science and 4 parts hippie-artsy-Zen-California-voo-doo! Eventually I'll aquire or make one of those Mag-ic thickness gauges with the ball bearing, but so far I have had great success without it.

These higher end "Loars" are pretty darn good without any work which is why I have been looking for a 700 that needed a little love, for a while now. It was a derelict instrument and I bought it with no hardware and the finish messed up, with this scope of work in mind. I love wood and the natural quality of the grain, so I like to finish them with color that enhances the grain and very light, hand rubbed Tru-oil topcoats. I can hardly wait to play it! BTW my refinishes look great under the extension! Ha,ha,ha

[MysTiK PiKn]

Hey Perry,
Thanks for comments about both instruments.

I think, as years go by, it might be possible to find more wrecky 700's. Mines mint, so I won't be hacking it up - with or without the zen hippy esotericisms, etc., but finding something that I could experiment with would be interesting. So far I have only played with cheap low level toys; but part of me wants to get into things farther, not that I want to destroy; but some cases offer more potential for radical learning experiences. Methinks you are way ahead of my wildest dreams already. Keep up the good work.

Thanks much for insights.

[Perry Babasin]

It has taken a long time with my extremely tight schedule, but the results are worth it! The Martin has a some minor fret buzz higher on the neck on a couple of strings, but they both sound and play great! This Friday I am retiring from work and will be recording and working on more instruments!

[colorado_al]

Wow! That is some fine work to take 2 non functional instruments and make them play again!
Congrats!

[noah finn]

Beautiful work Perry. Ive greatly enjoyed following your refinishing threads.

Best wishes for your retirement!

[George R. Lane]

Perry,
Great work and enjoy your retirement. I have been enjoying for the last 9 years.

[Lane Pryce]

Very nice indeed. I'm especially impressed with the way the Martin turned out. The 700 ain't too shabby either. Lp

[Nevin]

Nice work. Enjoy retirement.