To scoop or not to scoop? That is the question.

[usqebach]

A couple of years ago, I bought a 1921 F-4 off of Ebay. It had been kept in some hot dry storage in Arizona. The back had shrunk and separated from the rim. The headstock scroll was hanging by a thread, the tuners were mostly stuck, etc. And it has its fair share of knocks and varnish wear.

Through the diligent work of Matt Phillips at Atlanta Violins and our own Marty Jacobson, over this period we got the defects sorted out, refretted it with medium sized frets, and replaced the original tuners with Rubners (thanks Marty!). Now I have what I believe (famous last words) to be the lifetime keeper. The soundboard is gloriously open and clear, and it sounds just like what I hear in my head when I think of mandolin music (that's when the other ancillary voices in my head are on a smoke break!)

The only issue left to address is the fretboard extension. Unfortunately, I seem to be exceedingly prone to pick-click. And the thing is truly in the way. I took it by a local "Vintage Guitar" store (I would have taken it straight back to Marty, and ultimately probably will - it just seems that I am personally responsible for shutting down his production line every time I bring one of my orphans by, and I'm sure the Cafe' members and his family would appreciate me keeping his distractions to a minimum!). After representing that they had a top class luthier who could easily do the job, when they saw it they balked. They didn't want to do anything so invasive to a vintage instrument. I replied that I had always considered it a player, and while these old F-4s aren't cheap, they are common as rainwater and there are thousands of pristine examples floating around if that is what one wants. Ultimately they still refused, stating that they didn't want to take the job because they couldn't guarantee that I would be happy with the work, and again, they didn't want to do anything that couldn't be undone. They even suggested that I buy another mandolin (like an F-2-they didn't have any for sale so it wasn't a pitch) that didn't have the extension so it wouldn't have to be modified.

The tone of the conversation wasn't such that they were too good to do the work, but rather I felt they had too much reverence for what I've always considered to be a player's instrument that had already been repaired and modified and wasn't about to win any beauty contest anyway.

Am I missing something? Should I treat this thing like a museum piece? Have I been desensitized by all the examples of mod work done on other mandolins that have been described on this site that I'm out of touch with the rest of the "Vintage" trade?

I would appreciate any thoughts on the subject.

Thanks!

[usqebach]

Whoops! I posted this in the wrong folder. Should be in General Mandolin discussions. I have reported it to a moderator and hope I can get it moved.

[DavidKOS]

My suggestion is to leave the full fingerboard the way it was intended - Gibson mandolins were designed for classical mandolin playing - and even occasionally use those high notes!

I guess they need to move this response too.

[MikeEdgerton]

If it's in your way scoop it. It's not a museum piece by your own definition.

[DavidKOS]

If it's in your way scoop it. It's not a museum piece by your own definition.

In all respect, why would a part of the fingerboard, with frets, part of the range of the instrument be in the way?

[Tailgate]

If it were me, i'd scoop it. Sounds like it's a player and the extension is not necessary for your playing.

[sgarrity]

Scoop it! If it's not playable then it's worthless.

[Marty Jacobson]

Ask Sam what he thinks....

[DavidKOS]

I guess those high notes are not worth having a big area to pick in!

Outvoted.......

[DavidKOS]

Ask Sam what he thinks....

I looked at your website - lots of beautiful instruments there! Nice work indeed....and I do notice most do not have those few extra frets.

I'm partial to your 13" scale #32....sounds fine.

I'm guessing that most players don't use them and thus have no qualms about not having that range.

[usqebach]

David,

I primarily play Old Time music, and that at a fairly modest level.

The highest note I've ever come across is the high D. I counted 14 frets between that note and the end of that extension. I think I've got plenty of frets left even if I scoop!

[usqebach]

Marty,

I was thinking about that as well. I might prefer that look to the scoop, anyway.

We need to talk...

[MikeEdgerton]

In all respect, why would a part of the fingerboard, with frets, part of the range of the instrument be in the way?

Mine was. I scooped it. I never hit it again. The sweet spot where I wanted to play was right over the end of the fretboard extension. Your playing style might be such that it isn't an issue, for others it is. I''ll note that many professional mandolin players have simply removed the extension. I have yet to need those notes that I couldn't fret properly if I wanted to. Dave Apollon did use at least one of the notes on the extension but he had to have the fret before it removed in order to actually use it.

[lenf12]

You could replace the existing FB with an abbreviated FB (ala Sam's "Hoss"). Marty could do the job for you. Save the original for some future custodian of your F-4. I am in the "don't do anything irreversible" camp regarding vintage instruments. Replacing the FB is quite reversible imho.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[DavidKOS]

David,

I primarily play Old Time music, and that at a fairly modest level.

The highest note I've ever come across is the high D. I counted 14 frets between that note and the end of that extension. I think I've got plenty of frets left even if I scoop!

Mine was. I scooped it. I never hit it again. The sweet spot where I wanted to play was right over the end of the fretboard extension. Your playing style might be such that it isn't an issue, for others it is. I''ll note that many professional mandolin players have simply removed the extension. I have yet to need those notes that I couldn't fret properly if I wanted to. Dave Apollon did use at least one of the notes on the extension but he had to have the fret before it removed in order to actually use it.

I know about Apollon's fret use and removal. Great player!

Well, if you don't play in that range at all, and that's where you want to pick the strings, then something like those extra frets has to be sacrificed. I guess they are only for playing classical repertoire and even then only certain mandolin works and violin transcriptions.

"I''ll note that many professional mandolin players have simply removed the extension."

I suppose they mostly play Bluegrass, Old Time, folk, and other genres that do not seem to use the extreme register.

Thanks for explaining.

[foldedpath]

If it were my mandolin, I wouldn't hesitate to scoop it. A good luthier will do a nice job with the surface removal, and you can either leave it black, or spend more to inlay flush metal wire or white binding material to preserve some of the original appearance.

I intentionally chose a mandolin (my Lebeda) that has an "S" shaped fretboard extension that leaves the sweet spot picking area free of obstruction. A friend had his Elkhorn with a Florida extension scooped when he has some neck work done on it recently, and it plays much easier now.