I guess I'm a mandolin player

[sbhikes]

Several years ago I traded a PVC Irish flute for a $100 mandolin. I think I got the better trade.

I brought my mandolin to the jam for a while but took a fiddle class and felt guilty if I didn't bring my fiddle to the jam because the fiddle teacher was at the jam. So for years I brought my fiddle to the jam. I'm terrible at it but it's fun so I don't really care that I'm terrible and neither do they.

Recently my fiddle exploded so I brought my mandolin that's been sitting in a corner being used only to scare my parrot into leaving me alone (quit bugging me or else I'll go get the mandolin!). It was a lot of fun so I keep on bringing it to the jam. I just play the melody like I've learned all these years. I don't know any chords. Sometimes the pick doesn't seem to work right. I glare at it but it doesn't obey. Anyway, people suddenly keep saying stuff like they're surprised I can actually play music. With how badly I play the fiddle, I'm not surprised. I played alone in front of them all at a gig the other day and people came up later and complimented me. I've been asked which I like better: mandolin or fiddle, kind of like a subtle hint to bring the mandolin again. Recently they needed someone to come to a gig that's coming up and I said I could make it and people actually expressed gratitude and happiness I'd be there.

Long story short, I guess I'm a mandolin player. I guess I should practice or learn how to play it or something.

I know one of the guys at my jam comes here. He's got a sticker on his case. Maybe he'll recognize me.

[Stacey Morris]

Glad you had fun! Play on!

[Mark Gunter]

That's a great story! It's really, really cool when things just start coming together. Sounds to me like the mandolin is the way to go. Hope you have a ton of fun with it.

[Bertram Henze]

Recently my fiddle exploded

??? Now make a confession - you had that dynamite in the shed and wondered what to do with it?

scare my parrot into leaving me alone

Parrots need company. A lonely parrot is utter cruelty. Get a second parrot and you'll be left alone.

[Ellen T]

Hey, don't worry about "just" playing melody, I've played since the 1960s and never learned chords. Violinists/fiddlers don't, and the mandolin is tuned the same way, so it's a legitimate way to play. If you want to learn chords, do so and enjoy; I've just never been at all tempted.

[k0k0peli]

Hey, don't worry about "just" playing melody, I've played since the 1960s and never learned chords. Violinists/fiddlers don't, and the mandolin is tuned the same way, so it's a legitimate way to play. If you want to learn chords, do so and enjoy; I've just never been at all tempted.

IMHO it's a matter of context. The soprano melodic voices of standard violin and mandolin work well in ensembles and not so well alone. Yes, there's a great literature for solo violin which is generally rather louder than a mandolin; I'm not sure how well that violin music works on unamplified solo mandolin. But I'm pretty much a loner. I need chord+melody for the mandolin to usefully accompany my singing. I treat my mandola like an 8-string tenor guitar to the same end. Yes, I need more musical friends.

[Ellen T]

I don't sing, so the only melody I'm going to get has to come from the instrument, since I only play for myself. If I can hear what I'm playing, that's all I need, in fact, I like to play softly; I just enjoy that sound more. It saves a lot of money on strings and picks, too!

[sbhikes]

I probably will never learn chords. I might like to have some chord-like ability to make my mandolin more like my strumstick, which I like because of the way it accompanies me but I don't see myself every playing back-up. That's a real skill!

The parrot's a cockatoo and there are some nights when she decides she is going to be obsessed with my hair style and tries to figure out a good way to get close enough to attack it. Those are the nights I get out the mandolin.

[OldGus]

Hey, don't worry about "just" playing melody, I've played since the 1960s and never learned chords. Violinists/fiddlers don't...

Simply not true, .

[Mandobart]

No one is required to play chords, of course. However I really think a person who chooses not to even investigate chords on mandolin (or violin or any other instrument with the abity to form chords) is missing out on a lot. Melody is nice, but in an ensemble it's the harmonic content that adds depth to the music as well as the rhythmic chord accompaniment. Knowing the chords and chord changes (and arpegios for the chords) in a tune opens up so much in the way of harmonic and rhythmic possibilities.

Sure there are some genres where everyone plays the melody, and just the melody. But for most bluegrass, blues, folk, rock, jazz, gypsy, country, Latin and roots music the rhythmic chord and harmonic accompaniment is a big part of the style. I would be severely limiting my ability to play and enjoy those genres on fiddle, guitar and mando if I chose not to play chords.

[JeffD]

My first reaction: The ultimate goal of a jam session is to have fun playing with other people. Other things happen sure but that is the goal. Note that the goal is distinctly not to sound wonderful to the casual listener. Just play however you play, be it chords, melody, double stops, or what ever. Enjoy the moment. So many musical folks don't even do that. Sure folks want to get better, and want to try new stuff, and want to work things out, and some of that happens sometimes at a jam, but the prime directive is to have fun playing with other people.

I am pretty much a PIA about that. The "audiences" that show up to a jam in a public place get what the get. I don't play to them. Today I hosted a jam at an apple festival. I told our jammers that the goal is not to entertain festival goers, but rather to make festival goers jealous of all the fun we are having playing music.

My second point - if anyone calls me to participate in something, a show or benefit or an open mike duo, or a contra dance band, I am assuming they are happy enough with how I play right now, and I need not even think about not being good enough for them. If it turns out that they wanted something better, or wanted something different, well with any luck at all they won't call me again, leaving me more time to jam with my friends.

My third point - don't emulate me, I have a bad attitude sometimes.

[JeffD]

If enough other people think you are a mandolin player, well you might not be one but it seems you could play one on television.

[k0k0peli]

If enough other people think you are a mandolin player, well you might not be one but it seems you could play one on television.

Or in some kinky animated GIF. Better than a LolCat. Hopefully.

[Mandoplumb]

Sure a jam is to have fun, but to me the better we sound the more fun it is. I have accidently got involved in a jam where no one was in tune, or one didn't let the other shine, or no one was in time etc. It wasn't fun for me so I bowed out, that's not saying the others wasn't having fun, I don't know. My point is while a jam isn't supposed to be "worked out" or as polished as a performance if the core of that jam has fundamental knowledge of what makes the jam sound good then I have more fun. I don't jam to entertain the listeners but I try to grab all the entertainment I can.

[sbhikes]

Well, I go to what I guess is a very supportive jam. They are more about making sure people have fun, learn the tunes and keep coming back. Unless they are disruptive, of course. If I ever learn any chords that will be great. But it's hard enough playing all the notes, and we play old-time so there's not that many notes. If I want to play chords, I pull out my strumstick.

[JeffD]

Sure a jam is to have fun, but to me the better we sound the more fun it is. I have accidently got involved in a jam where no one was in tune, or one didn't let the other shine, or no one was in time etc..

Oh I agree. A jam that sounds terrible is no fun. And bowing out is the right decision.

I am referring to those whose jamming focus is making the ensemble sound good. Someone who might for example say something like "the jam already has enough guitars, they don't need another, I'll sit this out" or someone who might say, "the fiddles in this jam already have the melody, and since I don't play chords there is nothing for me to do, so I'll bow out."

I actually had the first of these statements said to me in response to my invitation to someone to join our jam. I told her that "need has nothing to do with it, I miss playing with you". She came to the jam. And was one of several guitars. We had a blast.

The criteria for bowing out, in the purest sense, is consistent with the prime directive: this isn't fun.

[Ellen T]

Simply not true,

I should have said, they don't necessarily play chords. Fiddlers play chords more than violinists, although I have heard some violinists do chords, but it is not the primary way they play.

And I am simply not interested in chords. I don't claim to be a anything but a hobbyist who plays for enjoyment, and for me, that is the melody. Not everybody has to be ambitious about learning every aspect of playing and musicianship. I notice that many people on MC live and breathe mandolin. I am not one of those types. Good for you if you are, and I admire you for it, but please be more accepting of people like me. If MC is only for professionals or those who aspire to be, I guess I do not belong here. I got along quite well for decades without it.

[Jess L.]

If MC is only for professionals or those who aspire to be, I guess I do not belong here.

Just my two cents: You belong here as much as anyone else does. Seems to me like pretty much a complete spectrum of mandolin players here? Maybe some of the more 'pro' people might be a little more outspoken or post more, but I like learning from everyone, everyone has moments of brilliant insight that can help other people learn new stuff.

I am simply not interested in chords. I don't claim to be a anything but a hobbyist who plays for enjoyment, and for me, that is the melody.

As a former fiddle player myself, for a long time the nearest I ever got to playing a chord was a double-stop or drone. Mostly drones - love drones. Lots of bagpipe tunes too, regular chord progressions don't necessarily fit with some of those... I think that probably depends on which tune it is and what other instruments are playing.

When I was playing tunes with bagpipers who had drones going constantly (and I like drones too, they're mesmerizing), but I guess maybe those drones *are* a chord? tonic chord? anyway it wouldn't have done me any good to whip out some stringed instrument to play 'normal' chord progressions on because it wouldn't have fit with the music, in fact it probably would have clashed and sounded dissonant. Part of the charm and eerie appeal of some of those fiddle and pipe tunes is that one can't pin them down to a certain harmony, and sometimes when guitar players *do* try to add chords it changes the entire sound and makes it into something else entirely.

I guess that's a longstanding debate in some Celtic music circles, whether or not guitars (and standard western harmony) should be welcomed or not, but I won't get into that, that would be a li'l too controversial for here.

Also it's my limited understanding that some Eastern and middle-Eastern music isn't exactly chord-oriented either, at least not in the western sense of chordal accompaniment, although I haven't studied Eastern music to really know much about it.

However, a majority of the stuff we modern western-civilization people hear, seems to be sort of built around chords? But a fiddle player doesn't really *need* to know chords although it can be helpful. Depends on what you're playing and who with.

After a long time, I had sort of a light-bulb moment once while playing fiddle, where I noticed that the melody I was playing was alternating back and forth between two or three notes, then it'd switch and it'd be a different set of two or three notes - happens a lot in fiddle tunes - and it occurred to me that those fiddle tune alternating notes were basically defining a chord... sort of. That was the turning point in my understanding of chord stuff in general - prior to that, it was all a huge mystery. So it was at that point that I started trying to do a little simple chordal accompaniment once in a while, on various instruments, because it was starting to make sense (a little bit, anyway).

But as to whether or not you want to play melody or venture off into playing chords too, do what makes you feel happy. For me, anyway, the purpose of playing music is for enjoyment and natural mood-enhancement.

I'd say that the only time you 'should' learn something/anything different, is if it's impeding your sense of enjoyment in playing your instrument. If it's not a problem, and if it doesn't hinder your enjoyment of playing music with other people on the occasions when you choose to do so, then don't worry about it.

[Ellen T]

Thanks, JL277z. I guess in the two or three years I've been a member here, any time I mention that I play melody, or that I don't sing, or that I don't play with anyone else, somebody sees fit to lecture me about it. Dang, I've been playing for nearly half a century, I know what I like by now and what I want to do. A lot of the bluegrass players cite Bill Monroe or other masters and how they play/played; well, perhaps I am a throwback to the Italian style, just not restricted to Italian tunes. For me, tremolo is the way to go - with an occasional experiment in more of a drone style, which suits certain tunes nicely.

[Bertram Henze]

Just my two cents: You belong here as much as anyone else does.

Second that, and it shouldn't be neccessary to explicitly state that.

I guess that's a longstanding debate in some Celtic music circles, whether or not guitars (and standard western harmony) should be welcomed or not, but I won't get into that, that would be a li'l too controversial for here.

I think there is a simple reason behind that debate: Irish tune melodies are harmonically ambiguous, they contain the possibility for several parallel chord sequences at a time. A melody player subconciously hears one harmony while the player next to him may hear a different one. Now here comes Mr Full Guitar Chord and makes a decision for all, and those who hear different chords resent that. That's why I stick with doublestops most of the time when playing accompaniment, for they maintain part of the ambiguity and leave a bit of freedom. But I still get mixed reactions sometimes.

[Cobalt]

Thanks, JL277z. I guess in the two or three years I've been a member here, any time I mention that I play melody, or that I don't sing, or that I don't play with anyone else, somebody sees fit to lecture me about it. Dang, I've been playing for nearly half a century, I know what I like by now and what I want to do. A lot of the bluegrass players cite Bill Monroe or other masters and how they play/played; well, perhaps I am a throwback to the Italian style, just not restricted to Italian tunes. For me, tremolo is the way to go - with an occasional experiment in more of a drone style, which suits certain tunes nicely.

I can relate to this, I think my playing traces back to the Italian style too, though the material I play ranges from the USA to the former USSR, and plenty in between.

I've been playing mandolin for a long time. I started out playing melody, and lots of tremolo, as well as some double-stops. It was probably twenty years or so before I even considered playing chords, at least as backing. Though for me there's a bit of a blurry line between double-stops and chords in any case. Still, after trying lots of different ideas, such as cross-picking, drone-notes, in the end it comes down to following my own instincts, doing what I enjoy, rather than trying to emulate some outside influence.

I play with other people, that's fun. But I play a lot on my own, and the material and style tends to vary, I just try to make a sound which gives me satisfaction, and often that involves playing a melody with a beginning, middle and end, but might also be an improvised sequence of notes which repeats endlessly with some variation. Then decorating it according to the mood I'm in. Sometimes I try to play delicately and sweetly, other times I just make a noise, a terrible racket! It's surprising how much variety there is to be had from playing mandolin by itself.

[k0k0peli]

I started on non-chording clarinet long, long ago, and droning mountain dulcimer after that, then a half-century of guitars (various string counts and tunings) with banjo, mando, o'ud and other stuff (mouth organs, fipple flutes, kalimba, etc) mixed in. Throughout all this I've been very aware of harmonic structures, i.e. chords.

Even modal and drone instruments and configurations contain those harmonic structures. Tune a guitar open, play double-stops on adjacent strings, and it's like a big dulcimer with a droning chord background.

Sometimes I work a piece on mando starting with only the melody and countermelody without thinking consciously of what chords, structures, or even keys are involved -- I played BLUE SKIES for a couple years before bothering to note that I was in F and using a Dm bass line.

I started on mando about 30 years ago but have only been seriously chording for a couple of years. And it makes melodic playing easier because I have a better mental map of where the notes are, where to arpeggiate, and where to slide the patterns and forms around.

Bop saxophonists playing arpeggios called that 'chording' following a tradition of wind and brass players. Playing notes at any intervals on a single- or multi-voiced instrument is chording. Double-stopping and droning is chording. You have been chording for decades without even knowing it! But knowing about it makes it a richer experience IMHO.

[FLATROCK HILL]

I notice that many people on MC live and breathe mandolin. I am not one of those types. Good for you if you are, and I admire you for it, but please be more accepting of people like me. If MC is only for professionals or those who aspire to be, I guess I do not belong here. I got along quite well for decades without it.

Hi Ellen, As far as I can see, the 'Cafe' is for everyone who wants to participate politely and respectfully, regardless of their skill level etc. You belong here as much as anyone. I always enjoy reading your contributions.

Thanks, JL277z. I guess in the two or three years I've been a member here, any time I mention that I play melody, or that I don't sing, or that I don't play with anyone else, somebody sees fit to lecture me about it.

I also think that it is only fair to at least consider the contributions of those who might correct us now and then, especially when we make statements or claims that aren't technically true. A lot of what is written on this site is subjective opinion. Naturally there will be disagreements in that realm. The objective (statements of) facts sometimes need to be challenged for the benefit of everyone.

I didn't read any 'lectures' in this thread.

[Petrus]

Sometimes I think of the mandolin as a "pickin' fiddle."

[Mandoplumb]

Ellen you belong here!! We need your opinion and impute as much as we need any ones. Sometimes in the heat of expressing our selves and what is important and fun for us we forget that everyone is different not better or worse just different. I enjoy chording as back-up to anothers lead or to my singing, not just "popping time" but using different chord structures 7th etc. But that is me and while I may try to get you to try it because it brings me pleasure, I need to remember What ever floats your boat.