I have more to say on this later when I have time, but depending on the year/era built Gils can sound very different. He's not making mandolins that sound like Ronnie's anymore.
I have more to say on this later when I have time, but depending on the year/era built Gils can sound very different. He's not making mandolins that sound like Ronnie's anymore.
Last edited by sgarrity; Sep-15-2015 at 5:31pm.
Shaun Garrity
http://www.youtube.com/user/spgokc78
Thanks Shaun for that bit of info!...That's probably the reference point for a lot of us...that thing (McCoury's Gil) is an absolute "beast"...and those tonal properties are kind of what I expected from the 2 that I played: one was close; the other one was on the quiet, thin side...from either side of the mando, behind or in front.
1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed
"Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
"If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
"I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
"Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel
I know I shouldn't say this on this forum but I've heard several Loars that I didn't think was great mandolins. No dogs, but not as great as more average mandolins selling at a fraction of the price. For collectabilty names mean something, for personal preference in tone the only way to tell is play em.
I have both my mandolins - a Collings MT2-O and a Northfield Model M set to 1.4-1.6 mm at the 12th fret. I would suggest that the OP try out the new Artist series Northfield F5s coming onto the market. There is a great video of Mike Marshall trying several out - a really nice balanced sound coming from them - like both my Collings MT2-O and my Model M. Steve is going for a mid-rangy and not a bassy mandolin so often sought by pickers these days. The OP might get used to that or he might not.
Nic Gellie
At risk of pointing out the obvious... just because a mandolin costs 5K, 10K, 15K or 200K it does not automatically mean you will fall in love with it.... someone else might, but we do not all share identical tastes. As for instruments breaking in, I believe they do, but at the same time if a mandolin does not pretty quickly get my attention as an great sounding instrument (to me) I'd not be tempted to stay with it too long.
Gibson F5 'Harvey' Fern, Gibson F5 'Derrington' Fern
Distressed Silverangel F 'Esmerelda' aka 'Maxx'
Northfield Big Mon #127
Ellis F5 Special #288
'39 & '45 D-18's, 1950 D-28.
i commissioned a Gil and received it brand spanking new in July of 2008 - had a gig that very night and was itching to try it out. it was the brightest sounding mandolin i had ever heard...bright in a good way, clear and snappy - i thought, ok, this is different, not like the other Gil's i had played, but you are in that euphoric phase of finally having one after 15+ years of wishing.
That mando 1 year later was TOTALLY different and really took on its voice after 3-4 years of steady playing. it is easily one of the most powerful mandolins i have played to the point i've yet again had to readjust my technique to it.
this is just what i have heard here - you know its the 'internet' - but i think steve mentioned the whole reason he went back to parallel tone bars was that they aged/broke in/developed, whatever to full tonal maturity over time - the X bracing was a means to get the max sound right off the bat in a new instrument. they pretty much sound 20 years later what they sounded like new (not brand new off the bench).
the // tone bar mandos are really bright and will develop that mid-range and bass over time - and that is exactly what i experienced.
i have also owned a KM-Dawg...it was cool and different, but no match in a bluegrass situation - very weak volume. if you have one louder than a Gil - shoot me a PM.
I completely believe in instruments changing over time. I've seen/heard it happen with my own instruments. Something else comes to mind too. If you watch the John Reischman video about his Loar that Fretboard Journal put out, he alludes to the possibility of "playing in" certain tones on a particular instrument. That makes sense to me. If a musician constantly plays a certain way, which will focus on certain tones and characteristics of a particular instrument, it only makes sense that those characteristics will be enhanced over time, simply out of repetition if nothing else.
...
Agree that instruments "change over time"; would be pretty weird if they didn't...?
But -- will they change in the direction their owners want? Will they start to sound like other "played-in" instruments by the same builder? Or will they acquire their own unique voices? (Which may be unlike what the owners expect.)
Reiterate my earlier point: buying an instrument with a voice that's not what you expect -- and maybe not what you want -- with the expectation that "playing it in" will produce the sound you're after, is a crapshoot. May happen, may not.
Buying a super-quality mandolin like a Gilchrist means that you get a top-line instrument by anyone's standards. Will it necessarily sound just like other Gilchrists you admire? Maybe not. If you play it for a few months or years, will it then sound just like other Gilchrists you admire? Again, maybe not.
Good point was made above, that part of "playing in" an mandolin involves getting used to its sound, so that sound becomes the standard expected output of our mandolin. Plus, there are all the other factors: string brands and gauges, picks, set-up, the environment in which it's played -- even increasing musical skill, adapting one's style to the instrument. It's an ongoing process, and any snapshot taken at a certain point in the process may or may not reflect the direction the process is taking, and the eventual outcome of the process.
Allen Hopkins
Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
Natl Triolian Dobro mando
Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
H-O mandolinetto
Stradolin Vega banjolin
Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
Flatiron 3K OM
Allen is correct in my opinion, I had a mandolin that sounded great right out of the box and a few years later it had lost just about everything, it could have been the lack of keeping it set up correctly because in those days I didn`t know any thing about set ups...Also as stated above different people look for and expect different things from a mandolin that they buy...even if you try one first before buying don`t mean an awful lot ...WOOD CHANGES OVER TIME....
Willie
So...some mandolins change for the better. They are, as Caleb says "enhanced over time" by the repetition of certain tones.
Other mandolins, the more tone you pull from them, the less that remains.
I hope the OP has one of the former.
(While I do believe mandolins can improve over time, I think your best bet is to pick one you like from the beginning.)
This sounds like a great opportunity for some Tone-Rite experimentation.
Mitch Russell
stay home for a fortnight of playing?
writing about music
is like dancing,
about architecture
I'll trade you my already opened up KM-1000 straight up for your Gil. I can settle for the tone.
Mandolin, Guitar, & Bass for Doug Rawling & The Caraganas
www.dougrawling.com
2008 Kentucky KM-1000
2014 Martin D-28 Authentic 1937
1964 Gibson LG-0
2022 Sigma SDR-45VS
I've never known one to get worse, a good mandolin seems to get better, a not so good mandolin most of the time seems to improve also but it had further to go to start with. I know different people want different sound, but what I'm talking about is balance, sustain, that open sound, not so tight. The tone really matures not change. That's why I think you can buy one with a pretty good idea of what it will progress to. Some do not that's why I prefer to buy an instrument used that has been played.
I would sell it. Gil's are in demand. I would think it would sell. I am not nearly as knowledgeable as others posters, but I can't imagine that set up and strings will make $18,000 difference. That's assuming it doesn't satisfy you as much as your much cheaper mandolin.
If you really like a deeper, bigger, bassier mandolin sound, I saw a Buckeye for sale on the web. I think it is at Carter's. It's a 2005. Mine is 2010 and meets that description. Mine was like that from the day I bought it and it got better.
I guess you have to also consider whether or not you are willing to wait a few more years to see if the Gil gets $18,000 better.
I have heard quite a few Gil's. Never heard one that I would describe as "lacking any bass/deep sound."
re simmers
If you're not wild about it right out of the case, send it back.
2010 Heiden A5, 2020 Pomeroy oval A, 2013 Kentucky KM1000 F5, 2012 Girouard A Mandola w ff holes, 2001 Old Wave A oval octave
http://HillbillyChamberMusic.bandcamp.com
Videos: https://www.youtube.com/@hillbillychambermusic
From Caleb - ".....it only makes sense that those characteristics will be enhanced over time, simply out of repetition if nothing else." I tend to agree with you on that point. However - the downside of that would be that those particular characteristics will be prominent to the detriment of others. A really good instrument,at it's best,should be capable of emphasising each & every note/tone that the player requires. It shouldn't have 'prominent' characteristics,it should have an even response over all IMHO. If i were the OP,i'd put a really good set of strings on it,set the mandolin up correctly re.bridge position,maybe set the action just a tad higher,& play the dickens out of it for a couple of weeks to get it to settle down. I'd also try out a few different pick types. My own recent experience with a Dunlop Primetone pick / J74 strings,has made me realise what an incredible difference the ''right'' pick can make. When i used J74's in the past,i'd used a Wegen Bluegrass pick. Using J74's 'now' with the PT pick,they're a totally different animal,very,very nearly as good as the DR strings i've been using. With the Wegen pick,they sounded soft & unfocused - so,the 'right pick' / string combo.should work out on a Gil. If it doesn't, then it's downhill all the way for the rest of us !,
Ivan
Weber F-5 'Fern'.
Lebeda F-5 "Special".
Stelling Bellflower BANJO
Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.
Here's a nice jam on a couple of Gilchrists (I think). To my ears, they sound different, but they sound pretty good to me
Last edited by Denman John; Sep-17-2015 at 2:23pm.
... not all those who wander are lost ...
Thanks for that video post John!
I like the first Gil (mando player on the left) better; but it could be due to playing style, pick choice, strings, set-up, etc. ad-nauseum...
But if I had purchased a Gil and when I played it, if it sounded like the one on the left , even for that price I'be be fairly content. If it sounded like the one on the right I'd be looking to move it...
1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed
"Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
"If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
"I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
"Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel
Uh.... Andy Leftwich playing on the left and some guy who is not Andy Leftwich on the right. Not exactly a fair comparison. I was blown away when I found a youtube video of Andy playing Big Mon (I didn't embed since it isn't a Gilchrist). Andy can pick, and I am sure he could make almost any mandolin sound better.
I should be pickin' rather than postin'
The 'mando player on the left' is Andy Leftwich. Pretty certain if he picked the other mandolin, you'd be singing praises of that one.
I believe the other player is Jason Bailey. I think I have played that mandolin. If it's the one I'm thinking of, the neck has been broken and repaired. It's a good instrument and he is a fine player. Sounds like he is using a thinner pick.
Yes,
I get it that the picker on the left is Andy, that's why I did clarify my preference with the following:
Did anyone not read this? The objection that the player (Andy) makes the difference was covered in my statement...but I wouldn't mind hearing Andy pick that other Gil that had the repaired neck to compare the differences...
Last edited by DataNick; Sep-17-2015 at 3:42pm. Reason: clarification
1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed
"Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
"If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
"I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
"Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel
I have a Brentrup that had not been played much when i got it. It took a long time for the G string to open up and resonate, it changed many times over a couple years of playing it lots. I also refit the bridge several times as it seemed the top was settling in and i didn't think if fit as well as it did, each time it got better to the point i am thinking of selling all my other mandolins as it is all i play. Play it hard and play a lot it will change.
THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!
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