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Thread: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

  1. #51
    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    Quote Originally Posted by mandowilli View Post
    That sounds like medical advice to me.
    Wait, so "get thee to a doctor" is medical advice? It's a referral to someone who might give useful medical advice.

    Geez, the guy only wants to know if anyone has found supplements that have been effective.
    Right, and it brings up an issue that keeps recurring here, which is one post leading to a slew of everyone posting what "worked for them." I hope it's self-evident how this is different from what we usually refer to as "medical advice."

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  3. #52
    Registered User mandowilli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    Wait, so "get thee to a doctor" is medical advice?
    Yep.
    willi

  4. #53
    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    Quote Originally Posted by mandowilli View Post
    Yep.
    Care to elaborate on that?

  5. #54
    Registered User mandowilli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    Nope.
    willi

  6. #55
    This Kid Needs Practice Bill Clements's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    Well, guess I'm guilty of sharing my experiences dealing with my Sept. 2013 shattered left wrist. Frankly, I don't see too much harm in someone saying, "I had a similar problem, here's what I did, and here's what the results were."
    I see no harm it that, because of your next quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    As I said above, I hope we're all intelligent enough to separate anecdotal experience from professional analysis...
    Bravo.
    Allen, thank for your kind words about my improvement. The more PT I have, the more I admire your guts and fortitude. I'll also add that today I was finally able to clap rhythms for a 6th grader interested in percussion, since June 18.
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  7. #56
    totally amateur k0k0peli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    If "alternative medicine" works -- meaning, it passes clinical trials -- it becomes mainstream medicine. Big pharma spends LOTS looking at vernacular medicines, searching for effective indigenous treatments, seeking to isolate active compounds. Big pharma is not always ethical about this. C.f. legal battles over who owns the rights to certain herbs etc. If a treatment remains 'alternative' it's most likely because it's just not worthwhile for anyone but woo-woo practitioners to peddle.

    A parallel: Some folks swear by water-witching and oil-witching. Petrochemical firms pay high salaries to bothersome geologists. If witching worked, Shell and BP et al would fund schools of witching, not geology schools. Trust greedy capitalists to exploit stuff that works and ignore stuff that doesn't. Yes, I'm over-simplifying, but that's basically how business operates. If astrology worked, the corporate world wouldn't need political-social-economic forecasters. If telepathy worked, we wouldn't need phones. If prayer worked, we wouldn't need doctors, lawyers, armies, etc. But I won't go off on that tangent...

    Again, unregulated supplements and unverified treatments are very risky. Using them instead of getting actual medical care is foolish. Steve Jobs stuck with 'alternative' treatments until it was too late. Even smart folks can be fools.
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  8. #57
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    Whatever advice I get (medical or other) will only work for me if I understand how it works. So anybody giving me some magical potion better have some good explanation along with it. I realize that this is no guarantee for success (reinventors of the perpetuum mobile always have very good explanations, too), but absence of explanation guarantees failure for me.

    The web rains you with advice (and explanations), that's true, but it gives your own ability of filtering nonsense something to work on (without that ability, you're lost one way or the other) - and maybe, just maybe something useful will make it past that filter. This will not make you a doctor, but it will make you a responsible person, and that's not bad either.
    All those posts here contribute something, and it's better to make the effort of filtering than just trusting the one doctor who happens to reside down the street, because maybe, just maybe he's a bigger bozo than any of us mandolin players.
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  10. #58
    Registered User Dave Harbst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    After 30 years of playing(not as a pro), I developed "trigger finger" in my left index finger. It became so painful that eventually I could not continue playing. I tried supplements, stretching exercises and Naproxen Sodium(Aleve) and finally went to an orthopedic doctor. After 12 days of Prednisone, I still had the pain, so the doctor said I should have "trigger finger release surgery." Before accepting that remedy, I did some research and went to hand specialist for a second opinion. I did not tell the hand specialist that I had already been to another doctor. After a thorough exam and consultation, he said that I could try a shot of cortisone. I agreed and had the shot(into the big knuckle where my finger joins me hand). By the next day, nearly all the pain was gone and it hasn't returned yet. That was three weeks ago and I'm hoping that the pain will gone for good, or at least for a long time. Based on my experience, I would suggest seeing a hand specialist.

  11. #59

    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    As stated above, the objective evidence is that supplements, in particular glucosamine/chondroitin, don't work ( I am an internal medicine physician). Rather than seeing an Orthopedist I would consider a physical therapy referral.

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  13. #60
    Registered User Miltown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    I, too, have been dealing with finger pain of late--specifically, in the middle knuckle of my index finger. It's not terrible pain by any means, but the finger joint is usually quite stiff when I wake up in the morning, and it takes a while to warm up and for the pain to subside whenever I start playing.

    In other threads I've pulled up, people have associated this index finger pain with the sharp bend required to play the F note on the first string, and playing the G chop chord--and that's definitely what seems to be causing it for me. So does anyone have any technique-related suggestions to help reduce the pain? Should I be trying to finger those notes coming at them more from more of an angle, sort of violin-style?

    Also, what about using a finger splint to keep the index finger straight when not playing, and when sleeping? I've been doing some googling, and that seems like something that is often recommended for this type of pain. Has anyone had any luck using splints?

  14. #61
    Spencer Sorenson Spencer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    The Arthritis Foundation says there are 9 supplements that are "that are backed by science and shown to be effective in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis (RA), osteoarthritis (OA) and arthritis-related conditions."

    9-Supplements for Arthritis

    Are they impartial?

    Spencer

  15. #62
    totally amateur k0k0peli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer View Post
    The Arthritis Foundation says there are 9 supplements that are "that are backed by science and shown to be effective in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis (RA), osteoarthritis (OA) and arthritis-related conditions."

    9-Supplements for Arthritis
    Are they impartial?

    Spencer
    That multi-page article cites no studies. It does point to established medical databases. A quick glance at some of the recommended supplements shows ratings of "possibly effective' or "unknown effectiveness". That does not raise my confidence level much. And with unregulated supplements, you have NO WAY TO KNOW whether the product label is accurate, whether the product contains ANY of its claimed contents.

    Is the Arthritis Foundation impartial? I pulled up the Wikipedia entry on them. At the top: A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. It may require cleanup to comply with Wikipedia's content policies, particularly neutral point of view. So I cannot tell if they are impartial. Insufficient data, i.e. another crap-shoot.

    Hey people, it's your money, your life, your health that's at stake. Use your best judgement.
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  16. #63
    Registered User Randy Linam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    I haven't read all of the posts in this tread so please excuse me if repeat anyone's information. I am not a Physician. However, I am a Paramedic currently practicing as an industrial medical specialist. Your particular problem seems to center around inflammation, which in turn can lead to other problems. My suggestion would be focus on the root cause of your problem and use the tried-and-true Ibuprofen. In my opinion, Ibuprofen is the safest, most effective, most well tolerated of all NSAIDs. Provided you have no allergy to Ibuprofen, in 400MG doses Ibuprofen should yield very positive results with little or no abdominal/gastric distress. Also, long term Ibuprofen use at OTC dosage will pose virtually no threat of hepatic toxicity. After beginning treatment with Ibuprofen you should see improvement within 7-10 days, at which time you should be able to reduce the frequency of administration to twice daily.

    Hope this helps,
    Randy
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  18. #64

    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    I had bad hand and wrist pain about twenty five years ago. I tried everything I could think of and none worked. then I met a reiki master who did tai chi. she taught me the hand movements from tai chi and general finger warm up excercises, and gave me a few reiki treatments. and I have had no problems since. people look at me funny riding the bus or subway on the way to a gig, doing my hand excercises but they work.

  19. #65
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    Quote Originally Posted by ollaimh View Post
    people look at me funny riding the bus or subway on the way to a gig, doing my hand excercises but they work.
    Some people need to warm up, and if you need warmed-up muscles then a jump start on cold hands is disastrous. Strangely enough, those same people would find it perfectly normal if you expressed your sensation of pain on stage

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  20. #66
    Registered User McIrish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    Thanks again everyone for the input. I didn't mean to open a can of worms. I do appreciate everyone taking the time to give some of their personal history with pain. I'm hoping I can get this under control. I've got a lot more shows to do. :-)
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  21. #67
    Mandolin Dreams Unlimited MysTiK PiKn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    Welcome to the endless discussion. The cause and effect concept is in play. One thing leads to another. My inactivity makes me vulnerable. Ignoring that I further degenerate. Paying attention, I do something that helps. But, did I find the cause? I suppose if we deal with symptoms, we can find one step up the ladder - but what's the next step. I find poor nutrition. I find laziness. I find lack of exercise. I try vitamin/minerals combos. I try to do my eternal youth yoga exercises, and omg I can't do them - for the first time ever. I stop eating like a pig. I eat a ton of garlic and cayenne pepper. I mow the lawn. I watch less tv and get more sleep. I quit playing mandolin, and went shopping for a dobro. (and found one). Days later, I play the mandolin, and I find poor posture, hyper-extension, and tension - muscles tensed for no real reason other than I am afraid to hit a wrong note. And still the position is all wrong. I don't know how to utilize a narrow Vneck on a cramped-for-space mandolin. I play a little, and not bad. I play gently and not bad. But I discover, not only bad posture - I don't know how or where to place my thumb on a skinny Vneck - and I am used to an old gibson guitar C-neck, like a telephone pole, and this mando is all not like that at all. I am lost. I don't know how to put my thumb on the back of a Vneck - and it's hurts to even try. I think about selling my mando.

    Last few days, a little exercise, eating better, more sleep, better posture. It all seems to help. All I know is my mando wants to hurt me and I can't find a way around it. I don't want to bother with it. I think mando is not for me. Or I have to learn something, and I can't find it. I see Thile on tv, and notice I can't see his thumb, and he is always moving slightly, even when standing. And his mando position seems natural. I am trying to find the subtle secret - and I think I am very much not alone in this. Others have similar or related problems too.

    So, do we talk about this? or is it taboo to discuss personal pain which seems related to mando. I think that IS mandolin content.

    I am amused by the doctor's concept of "objectivity". Follow your rules, there's nothing of me in it. That's perhaps aloof; but I don't see how an oath is subjective of objective - an interesting mix - but you're caught there; and free thinking is not permitted except for quacks. And the quack comments shut us all off from some solutions where you can't fix it, and I will have to live with it?? wow. It's about the money? Chasing symptoms, search cancelled.

    Clinical trials? Those are CONTROLLED by REALLY BIG PHARMA. Gov lobbyists - omg. The danger goes unnoticed. Close your eyes and listen to what the commercials say - esp. that voice that speaks at 90mph. May cause death and destruction ad infinitum. good luck w that.

    Don't believe anything - prove it to yourself. And that's not easy either.

    but I think I should sell mando. Too many, same problems. A separate forum would be good; but really, we have all we need right here, as long as people can express freely, and share experiences. There is some valuable truth here; some of it between the lines. thx for the ride. My search continues. Open your mind to solution rather than problem.

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  22. #68

    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    At this year's Mandolin Symposium, I had a class with Roland White. As I flexed my fingers, I said they were sore (they were very over worked!) Roland told me to cut out salt and sugar. Salt is easy, I don't add any, and I don't eat a lot of processed food that has a ton of salt. Sugar is another thing though. While I do not add any, I do love my sweets.

    What works for me is no overuse, stop if there is pain, and stretches.
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  23. #69
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    Default Re: Supplements for dealing with finger pain?

    I just had a thought, hand massage. I learnt some years ago when I did a foot massage course (Reflexology). I would do the massage and then cover your hands with a nice warm towel for a deep relaxation. Something else worth trying is a visualsed relaxation, which is commonly taught during a meditation practice. One simply clenches ones hands into a fist as tight as you can then let them relax, another way is to individually instruct each muscle to relax in turn. Try it and see.

    The good old hot and cold compresses would work, as long as it isn't something that could be irritated by the change of temperatures.

    I've not seen any scientific results for Aromatherphy oils for hand pains, but it has had some great results for Alopecia/hair loss (source Aberdeen Infirmary Study). It might be worth having a chat with a therapist in the oils.

    Lastly eatting Lettuce will help you relax and sleep in general.

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