Kimble & Ellis - Thoughts

[Relio]

I'm in the market for an F and am interested in Ellis and Kimble. I live in an area where I can't easily get my hands on these types of instruments to play. I'd have to drive about 9 hours to Nashville.

I've only played two examples from each (both at Carter's earlier this year). Both seemed high build quality, nice tone and volume. I'm not good at describing sound, but what I heard was the Ellis seemed less traditional. When I say that, I mean less focused, maybe there are more harmonics? I don't know how to describe it....

It's funny, when I play "modern" vs. "traditional" I gravitate a little towards the modern sound, but in recordings I tend to like the traditional sound. Go figure... The majority of my playing is at jams and festivals so I like red spruce and power/volume.

I'd love to hear experiences of others with these two great makers. Thanks!

[Ray(T)]

Only 9 hours - lucky you! As far as I know, there are only two Kimbles in the UK - and I happen to own both of them. They've lived apart for most of their life (6/7 years) and they really couldn't sound more different - so much for "F"s sending the same as "A"s. What I'm saying is the only way you're going to decide between the Ellis and the Kimble is to play them side by side.

[Tobin]

I've only played two examples from each (both at Carter's earlier this year). Both seemed high build quality, nice tone and volume. I'm not good at describing sound, but what I heard was the Ellis seemed less traditional. When I say that, I mean less focused, maybe there are more harmonics? I don't know how to describe it....

I haven't played a Kimble, but I agree with your assessment of the Ellis sound. It was actually what I loved about it, and the main reason I bought an Ellis. Compared to the others I did play, it had much more in the way of complexity and overtones/harmonics/etc. It's not the dry sound that some people expect from a traditional F5, although it seems that everyone expects something different. Some of the original Loar F5s do have great overtones, while other Gibson builds seem more dry.

At any rate, Ellis mandolins do seem to have their own unique sound. You either love it or don't. I can't claim to know how it compares to the tone of a Kimble, but I'm sure each is great in its own way. Just different. I will say, however, that my Ellis has never lacked for power or volume. It has gotten much louder and more powerful in the 2 years I've been playing it, and the complexity of tone seems to have been enriched as well. At this point, it would be difficult for me to go back to playing a more dry or 'traditional' voiced mandolin, as it would seem to be missing something.

[Austin Bob]

I've only played two examples from each (both at Carter's earlier this year). Both seemed high build quality, nice tone and volume. I'm not good at describing sound, but what I heard was the Ellis seemed less traditional. When I say that, I mean less focused, maybe there are more harmonics? I don't know how to describe it....

I'll be honest, when folks go into great detail trying to describe the sound of one instrument compared to another, I quickly lose interest in the post. Imaging trying to describe the difference between a Rembrandt and a Picasso. One could write a small novel, and never do justice to either artist; you just have to see them for yourself.

If I were in your shoes, I might suggest contacting Carter's or another dealer that happened to have both, and describe your predicament. Perhaps you could come to an agreement on a way to try each of them without putting undue risk on either party? You can't be the only person that's ever been torn between two instruments.

[Nashville]

Mine is the same experience as yours, with same instruments at Carters. I only live 20 minutes away! At any rate, I am just listening for what pleases my ears and feels good in my hands. I could die and go to heaven with either the Ellis or Kimble.

Maybe you need one for live playing and another for recording? Nothing wrong with that.

[Kevin Briggs]

I haven't played an Ellis, but I played a few Kimbles a few years ago at IBMA and they were fan-freaking-tastic. One of his Fs was perhaps the best new F I've had in my hands. I was really, really impressed. He also seems like a cool dude!

[Ivan Kelsall]

I've never played a Kimble mandolin but as most folk on here who've ever read any of my threads, will know that i love the Ellis mandolins. Last year i was fortunate enough to be offered a 'used' Ellis "A" style which after first refusing it,i did buy. Kevin used to own a good sounding Weber Fern at one time,& the sound of the Ellis isn't too far away from that. It's very clear & open sounding but with a greater 'depth'. I still own a Weber Fern & whereas the strings on the Fern vibrate,but not so much the body,the whole of the Ellis comes to life. It's incredibly responsive to even the lightest touch. A friend of mine,a Classical mandolin player, pulled the most sublime tones from it that i've ever heard from any mandolin. It can be played softly or as hard as you'd ever care to & the tone stays the same,it just gets louder. IMHO,it's similar to many other more 'modern' sounding mandolins in it's clarity & intonation. It might not have sonorous,woody' tones,but then again,many other make don't either.
The ONLY way to compare the 2 makes,is to play them & judge for yourself. Our opinions are our opinions,& may differ greatly from yours,
Ivan

[Ray(T)]

Ivan, we really should get your Ellis and my Kimbles together sometime so that we can disgree on a more secure footing. Ray

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Maybe we should have a UK mando-meet.
In fact I'm going to post something in the appropriate forum section now so as not to distract from the original post any further.

Daniel

[stevedenver]

having played both and owning an E, you cannot go wrong with either.

simply, whichever speaks to you. sometimes its the sound alone, other times, its the whole package, fit feel sound smell finish.

I think you will intuitively know.

[sgarrity]

Two of the finest builders and nicest guys in the business. Kimbles leans toward the traditional end of the spectrum with their own tone and character. Ellis leans toward the modern end with more bass and overtones. At this level of quality its all about personal preference and the individual instrument.

[Denman John]

I have a Kimble A-0, and I haven't played or heard a mandolin that I like better. Don't get me wrong, I've heard a Nugget and a Heiden that I really liked, but I wouldn't trade mine for either of those. It's funny, I've read here on the cafe that Kimble mandolins are in the modern camp, while others say that they are more traditional in tone. I don't really know how to answer that I will say that it can be sweet, powerful, pops, cutting when you want it to be, and has the bass that an oval hole has to offer. I have no problem being heard in a jam. It's a wonderful mandolin that will hopefully be with me for a very long time.

I've never played an Ellis, but from the rave reviews here and the video/soundclips that I've seen, they look like remarkable instruments. If I were to get a 2nd mandolin (A style with F holes to complement the Kimble), I imagine it would either be an Ellis or a Heiden. At this level, they all sound fantastic and have a character of their own. If you can try them before buying ~ you're in for a treat! If not, I would have no problem ordering either sight unseen.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From DJ above - "At this level, they all sound fantastic....".How true !. Usually at this level,it's the 'individuality' of each instrument that's the deciding point. They will all sound fantastic,but each will have it's own tone, & each will appeal to us maybe more than another,just as it should be,
Ivan

[Relio]

Thanks for the input everyone!

[Hadji36]

Not sure what your financial situation is, but, if I we're going to drop $10k plus on a mandolin, I would probably take the trip to play it in person. I'd probably sell it to the wife as a couple days trip out of town and, "Hey. Look at that. I wonder if they have mandolins?" Of course, she would then roll her eyes.

I don't doubt that both would be fantastic mandolins, but, at that price point a few hundred bucks on gas, hotel and a nice dinner for momma to ensure I get the right one would be a decent investment. Plus, you won't have to wonder if you made the right choice...JMO

[Relio]

The two instruments I'm interested in are not located near each other so I couldn't A/B anyways. I was in Nashville earlier this year so I know a lot of the mandos down there already.

Not sure what your financial situation is, but, if I we're going to drop $10k plus on a mandolin, I would probably take the trip to play it in person. I'd probably sell it to the wife as a couple days trip out of town and, "Hey. Look at that. I wonder if they have mandolins?" Of course, she would then roll her eyes.

I don't doubt that both would be fantastic mandolins, but, at that price point a few hundred bucks on gas, hotel and a nice dinner for momma to ensure I get the right one would be a decent investment. Plus, you won't have to wonder if you made the right choice...JMO

[Bill Bradshaw]

Don't know if this will help.

Recently, A professional musician played his Ellis F and then my KimbleBB25. He was gracious enough to do it several times while I sat out front.

Pretty different beasts to my (admittedly crappy ears). Forgive the subjectiveness of it all, but the Ellis was fuller, lusher, more overtoneish, whereas my Kimble seemed dryer, more simple, and more "fundamental" (as a luthier described it). He'd played Butch Baldassari's mandolin and made the comment that my Kimble sounded Loarish to him.

Yesterday, another very good picker played his Dearstone, then an 05 Distressed MM, then my Kimble, then a July 9 Loar (I think 9th is right).

I thought the MM was very much like I remembered the Ellis; very full sound. The Loar was much different, and I think I'm being pretty realistic here, more like my Kimble. The Dearstone tended towards the MM sound I thought.

Anyway, dunno it this helps, but to my ears, my Kimble seems much different than the one Ellis I've heard, differerent than the MM, and more like the Loar.

What fun to hear so many good mandos!

Bill

[Brad Sicotte]

having played both and owning an E, you cannot go wrong with either.

simply, whichever speaks to you. sometimes its the sound alone, other times, its the whole package, fit feel sound smell finish.

I think you will intuitively know.

I agree. I've played both and they are both magnificent instruments that you can't go wrong with. One thing I love about this class of mandolin is the dynamics from soft to loud with no loss of character. Play everything you can and have someone else play them for you to listen to. I couldn't get to Carter's so I bought my Ellis from the cafe with excellent results!

[red7flag]

I have had the pleasure of owning two Ellis F5s. I agree with the assessment that there is a modern sound to them. They are bright on the top end and heavy on the basses, with more overtones than say a Gilchrist. The deep sound is strong, but very different from the builders going for that Loar (Lloyd) sound. The early Kimbles were more of the modern sound. Will stated to me that he decided to go more for the Loar sound in his newer instruments. Personally I preferred his individual take on the modern sound and I guess that is why I also gravitate to the Ellis. The Ellis and both iterations of the Kimble are fabulous builds and awesome sounding. None will find any of them to be wanting either in build or tone. Which you prefer more and issue of personal preference. I would try to A/B if possible.

[Relio]

Thank you everyone for your input. I went with a Kimble F5 and I absolutely love it. The tone is fat, woody, and I'm not sure I've played a louder mandolin. I'm looking forward to growing as a musician with this instrument over the next 50 years.

[barry]

Thank you everyone for your input. I went with a Kimble F5 and I absolutely love it. The tone is fat, woody, and I'm not sure I've played a louder mandolin. I'm looking forward to growing as a musician with this instrument over the next 50 years.

Beautiful! Is that #208?

[Relio]

#209

[darylcrisp]

nice

i may have misinterpreted this info, but i was told that Kimble has somewhat scaled back on building, is not taking on custom builds but doing spec builds as time permits and offering them for sale.

anyone know if that is truth?

d

[DataNick]

Congrats Relio!

Sweet looking mando and I'm sure she sounds grrrrrrrreat!

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

nice

i may have misinterpreted this info, but i was told that Kimble has somewhat scaled back on building, is not taking on custom builds but doing spec builds as time permits and offering them for sale.

anyone know if that is truth?

d

That is my understanding and recollection. I believe Mr, Kimble may have mentioned something on his Facebook page last year.

Incidentally I was going to mention the absolutely stunning Kimble two point that once belonged to Andy Statman. I'm sure it is one killer axe.