To Upgrade or Not to Upgrade?

[PhillipeTaylor]

Question about upgrades:

I own a couple Breedloves. Oval and f-style. Love them. Super love them. I have played mandolins worth twice what they are worth and still prefer and love their sound. But IÂ’ve never tried playing a Collings or Northfield or some of those higher grade mandolins, either.

Been looking at the Collings ovals. For those that own a Collings mandolin, what are we getting for the extra money? I have heard that past a certain point, there are depreciating returns and that the differences are smaller and you pay more for less of an “upgrade” in sound. What are others thoughts on this?

For those that have them, What do you love about those higher grade mandolins? Why is it worth it (especially Collings)?

For those that donÂ’t, why isnÂ’t it worth it to you to upgrade?

[milli857]

I have liked the Collingses and Northfields I've played but I certainly wouldn't buy one blind if I loved my current instrument.

I'd say the time to upgrade is when you:
1. Play an instrument and are blown away by at least one aspect of it compared to what you have, and
2. Have the spare cash you're willing to put towards it.

That's about it. You never "need" to upgrade from your Breedloves, and there's a lot of personal preference that goes into loving an instrument, especially a high end one. At the same time, you don't need any reasoning other than "it sounded amazing when I played it".

[jimmy powells]

I agree with Milli857. Its when you actually play a different instrument and LOVE the extra something you get from it. You only know when you play it. It;s the old story of playing say 6 Martin guitars and finding you only love 1 or 2 of them. I've bought lots unseen in my enthusiastic youth of years ago but now realise that if they are not better than what you have then no point in 'upgrading'.

[pheffernan]

For those that have them, What do you love about those higher grade mandolins? Why is it worth it (especially Collings)?

I bought a used Collings MT from Guitar Center of all places a decade ago thinking that I would sample it for the 45 day trial period and then return it if the experience wasn’t overwhelmingly positive. That mandolin went nowhere for years, instead becoming the benchmark for comparing all other mandolins in terms of build quality and especially playability. I ultimately sold it during a house move, but it remains the first musical instrument that didn’t limit me in any way and the only one I occasionally regret having caught and released. If you’re curious, and have the means, you should experience one for yourself. Should you buy used and appropriately depreciated, you won’t lose much of anything on the transaction. Hell, judging by a classified ad placed today, I would have doubled my money had I just held onto it for another few years.

[Falconerguy]

I say that if you're considering Collings or Northfield money, you could also get something from a prominent builder.

There are lots of incredible builders around right now that are offering top quality instruments at close to (or in some cases, less than) the prices of branded instruments like Gibson, Northfield, and Collings.

Mowry, Clark, Girourard, just to name a few. You might be surprised how comparatively affordable an A-style or a two-point can be from these boutique builders. The major drawback is the waiting list of course, which I believe hovers around 2 years for the above builders. However, that could be spun into a positive if you use that time waiting to save and increase the budget on your mandolin.

If you can stomach the wait I think it's hard to go wrong with this route. I just received an F5 from Austin Clark about two weeks ago, and it is truly a stunning instrument. Physically beautiful, absolutely, but the sound is nothing short of perfect as well. I got the choose all the specifics and now have a one of a kind instrument for myself.

One last piece of advice, if you do decide that commissioning a boutique builder is how you want to proceed, getting on the waiting list sooner rather than later is a good idea. The price of my Clark F5 has gone up by about 30% since I locked in my price!

[Chuck Leyda]

Well your American Breedloves are solid mandolins. They won't hold you back. And you love them. They're in a price range where it's hard to just turn up the "better".

I would hold off upgrading until you know what you want. Have fun looking and listening to everything you can. Do you want more bass? Less? More chime? More cut in an ensemble? Different look that inspires you? All valid. Keep searching until you can identify what you want. You'll fall in love with something out there.

I can highly recommend Max and Lauri Girouard. Very good at what they do and nice folks to work with.

[HappyChad]

I say that if you're considering Collings or Northfield money, you could also get something from a prominent builder.

There are lots of incredible builders around right now that are offering top quality instruments at close to (or in some cases, less than) the prices of branded instruments like Gibson, Northfield, and Collings.

Mowry, Clark, Girourard, just to name a few. You might be surprised how comparatively affordable an A-style or a two-point can be from these boutique builders. The major drawback is the waiting list of course, which I believe hovers around 2 years for the above builders. However, that could be spun into a positive if you use that time waiting to save and increase the budget on your mandolin.

If you can stomach the wait I think it's hard to go wrong with this route. I just received an F5 from Austin Clark about two weeks ago, and it is truly a stunning instrument. Physically beautiful, absolutely, but the sound is nothing short of perfect as well. I got the choose all the specifics and now have a one of a kind instrument for myself.

One last piece of advice, if you do decide that commissioning a boutique builder is how you want to proceed, getting on the waiting list sooner rather than later is a good idea. The price of my Clark F5 has gone up by about 30% since I locked in my price!

I second this! Hinde #8 is in the classified section for $5500 and Heritage 71 $7000. I own Heritage #46 and it's really opened up in the year I've owned it, such a bluegrasser. I'm obviously biased but I predict demand for his mandolins will go up.

[mandroid]

Shakespeare - Romeo & Juliet do Rene Descarte? to be Y/N?

[CES]

I've played a few MTs and owned one for a few months that were excellent mandolins, with extremely fine build quality, fit and finish, etc, but the ones I've played (all Engelman topped, FWIW) had a more modern tone to them. I debated for quite a while whether to keep the MT or my Silverangel Econo I owned at the time, as each had their strengths. I ultimate went with the deeper bass but otherwise more traditional SA tone. That said, I've played some Adi topped MT-2s and F5s that were monsters, though still with that tone refinement they're known for.

I agree with Chuck. I wouldn't rush to upgrade, but certainly you can be intentional about looking. Find some dealers that carry Collings ovals and go check some out. Take a trip to Nashville, Elderly, Fiddler's Green, Gryphon, TME (wherever is closest to you) and play a bunch. It's an education, even if you don't buy anything. When you play one that makes you go, "Whoa, that's definitely better than my Breedlove," then pull the trigger. I currently own a Northfield F2S that's a joy to play and maturing into a really nice mandolin, and I highly recommend them...but I can't comment on how it would compare to your Breedlove oval as I've only played the import ones (NF > laminate backed import BL).

In adding to the list of folks making some killer oval holes right now, consider Pomeroy and Skip Kelley as well. I own a Kelley A5 that's my baby and a spectacular instrument, and I've played a couple of Don's instruments that really impressed me. Also, both are still pretty reasonable from a price perspective.

I also agree that you don't need a reason to buy a new mandolin other than you want to and have the cash...as personally demonstrated too many times, lol!!

[ColdBeerGoCubs]

Years ago I had a Breedlove OO that I loved. Traded it in for a Collings MT-O. I’ve had 4 MT-O’s since then, liked everyone of them so much that I decided to stop playing the catch and release game and just keep one permanently. The MT-O is a hybrid, but its 13th fret neck joint is a game changer. The volume and the tone are light years different than anything the Breedlove could ever muster up, and I loved that OO. I’d get another right now if I could find one, but the Collings is a do it all mandolin. Make the leap. There is nothing that I’ve yet found that fills the niche the MT-O does.

[Dan in NH]

Regarding the buying of "high end" mandolins (or guitars, or cars, or watches, or any other "boy toy" that catches your eye): If you want the mandolin, and you can afford the mandolin without causing financial hardship to your family, then you buy the mandolin. There is no other criteria.

Now regarding the question of is it worth it: I recently took a Road Trip^(tm) to The Music Emporium in Lexington, Massachusetts. They had two mandolins on the wall that I wanted to try - A new Eastman 815/v in sunburst finish, and a used Northfield F5S. Because the Northfield was used, they were priced within a few hundred dollars of each other.

I have played several 815/v mandolins in the last couple of years, and I knew they were hit or miss. I utterly loved one, despised another, and the rest left me indifferent. This one left me very pleased with the tone, volume, and the playability. I wasn't in a buying place at the moment, but when I hung the mandolin back up I thought to myself "I can see myself buying this mandolin."

Then I tried the Northfield. Honestly, it was like night and day. The Northfield sounded SO MUCH BETTER. I remember playing the same scales & riffs, all single notes, and thinking to myself "This mandolin is producing sounds that were missing from the other mandolin." That was the only way I could discribe the differance to myself.

The Eastman 815/v retails new for $2600, and a Northfield F5S retails new for $3600, and there absolutely was a difference between the two. Noticeable, palpable, clear as day to my mostly tin ear.

[DHopkins]

I have a pair of Breedloves: Legacy FF and Quartz FF. Both were made in Bend, OR, before Breedlove moved their mandolin manufacture to China. I bought both from Dennis Vance at the Mandolin Store when they were in Arizona, Both sound fantastic. One has a K&K pickup, the other, a Schertler. The tailpiece on the Quartz succumbed to string pressure about 5 years ago and Breedlove quickly replaced it with no problems. I'm lucky to have 2 Gibsons and 2 Breedloves and all sound great. I wouldn't have a problem playing any one of them at a gig.

If you can find an American-made Breedlove, you won't be disappointed.

[Billy Packard]

More mandolins equal more fun!
Buy them, sell them, find the love of your life.
Lots to gain, little to loose.

Billy

[PhillipeTaylor]

If you can find an American-made Breedlove, you won't be disappointed.

Both of mine are the Quartz, signed by Kelly Breedlove. The American made. Sad he retired.

[Marcus CA]

In 2007, I upgraded from my Kentucky 250 to a Breedlove Quartz OF. A couple years later, I bought a used Quartz FF through the Café Classifieds. I've upgraded a few times since then, but as you mentioned in your original post, the higher the price point, the more you'll be spending to move up a level.

I'm guessing that you don't live near a store that would carry a Collings --- which seem to be built in very small numbers these days --- or a Northfield. Right now, The Music Emporium has a few of each. If you were going to be a serious buyer, they might be able to have someone play comparable mandolins from each company for you over the phone --- which would hardly be the best auditory experience, but it at least would give you an auditory comparison on a level playing field.

FWIW, I think that both companies make mandolins that sound better to my ear than my Breedlove does. However, for me, each Collings model sounds comparable to a mandolin that Northfield sells at a lower price point these days.

To answer your general question about "What do you love about those higher-grade mandolins?", I'd say that I get a richer tone with more presence, and usually more volume. When I play a chop chord, it has more pop out of a higher-grade mandolin. When I play a break, it rings out more. It's the auditory version of going from a regular tv to a hi-def one.

[steve in tampa]

My last "upgrade" was not a higher end mandolin, but one more suited for use in the current group I am playing in. I had it built to my specifications using neck measurements from one I really liked playing but was a lower end import piece that sounds just "OK".

Spending more does not always get you what you want or need. Buying smart will get you closer to your goals.

[Bob Buckingham]

I play music with a kid who has two Breedlove A's. They sound great and are quite playable. He always sounds good on them and they cut well thru the band sound with a full tone. What else do you need?

[PhillipeTaylor]

I play music with a kid who has two Breedlove A's. They sound great and are quite playable. He always sounds good on them and they cut well thru the band sound with a full tone. What else do you need?

More. (lol, thanks for affirming my Breedloves. I do love them).

[Jim Garber]

The Breedlove mandolins I have played are very nice but as I recall very different in tone from the ones you mention above. If at all possible get out to a shop and try one or three. If not possible then budget extra for possible returns and deal with legitimate stores that have good return policies and also include professional setups.

The biggest problem with quality mandolins is that they are not readily available at most music stores. OTOH the same problem occurs with one poster’s suggestion. To order from a boutique maker. Unless the maker has a satisfied customer near to you how do you try out one. If I were in your position I would also add to your budget the cost of travel to somewhere there would be shops that carry a good range of mandolins within your budget.

[desertnight]

I might suggest you try a Pava Oval hole A style. Incredibly clear sounds, power with perfect playability and workwoman ship.

[James Vwaal]

I bought a used Collings MT from Guitar Center of all places a decade ago thinking that I would sample it for the 45 day trial period and

pheffernan, Every time you post it seems like that list at the bottom gets longer. I think that you are putting together a mandolin store that I will want to visit some day!

1924 Gibson A Snakehead
2005 National RM-1
2007 Hester A5
2009 Passernig A5
2015 Black A2-z
2010 Black GBOM
2017 Poe Scout
2014 Smart F-Style Mandola
2018 Vessel TM5
2019 Hogan F5

[pheffernan]

pheffernan, Every time you post it seems like that list at the bottom gets longer. I think that you are putting together a mandolin store that I will want to visit some day!

Teak, we need to lobby Scott to add room to the signature line, as I haven't the space to list my Forster Big Celtic F and OMI Dobro.

[DHopkins]

Put 2 or more on one line.

[pheffernan]

Put 2 or more on one line.

I’ve thought about different ways of reorganizing but lament the notion of disrupting the record of the order in which I met them.

[DHopkins]

If it's that important to you, you can still keep them in chronological order

I doubt they'll look favorably at modifying the forum program for one person, but good luck. It's worth a shot.