Why Tonewood Dealers Have A Bad Reputation...

[Spruce]

Just sad...

Here ya go...

Lock 'em up...

[Timbofood]

I'm with you! Lock them up and let them grow curly maple from their remains!
That's terrible!

[Eddie Sheehy]

Slaughtering groves of Maple for wavy ornamentation on mandolins... clubbing young shrubs for fun... wait until the stunted survivors start producing knotted mutant circuit-board patterns with infected sap...
Actually might make a good movie...

[MikeEdgerton]

From their website:

At J & L Tonewoods we select and harvest all of the trees we use

He either goes to bed each night as a liar or a thief or both.

[Eddie Sheehy]

I'm with you! Lock them up and let them grow curly maple from their remains!
That's terrible!

Here lies Maple Bax,
Chopped down by an ax.
Her name wasn't Bax but Wood,
But Wood wouldn't rhyme with ax and Bax would...

[Timbofood]

How much wood would a wood poacher poach
If a wood poacher poaches wood?
Too much wood did the wood poacher poach
He should land in jail for good!


Next...

[Spruce]

From their website:

"At J & L Tonewoods we select and harvest all of the trees we use."


He either goes to bed each night as a liar or a thief or both.

Yikes, I didn't see that...

This has been a huge problem for a long long time, and it's worldwide...
There's one grove of trees (I won't even specify species) that I've made it a point to keep an eye on...
Very valuable, very poachable, and not all that protected by the USFS even though they've been advised of it's vulnerability...

Hoping that someone does some jail time for this one to set an example...

[fscotte]

Wow, went to J&L's website, that is some gorgeous tonewood there. Way overpriced and I'd never pay that much for a maple back but what the heck do they do with em when the feds confiscate it all...

[Spruce]

...but what the heck do they do with em when the feds confiscate it all...

I don't know how they prove that the wood was the same stuff that was pilfered...

There are just too many cases like this one kicking around out there...

[Mandoborg]

When the price gets that high it's pretty much expected. Counterfeit instruments are the same way. It's sad . We have friends on the west coast that tell us about this all the time. Doesn't seem to happen as much here in the East, or maybe we just don't hear about it. Luckily I don't need to buy much wood anymore, but there are a handful of dealers, Bruce at the top, that have great reputations. I have noticed a lot of 'tonewood' dealers popping up the last few years and that makes me nervous !!

[Spruce]

....but there are a handful of dealers, Bruce at the top, that have great reputations.

None of us have great reps these days, with this stuff going on...
...even the tonewood dealers who cloak themselves in "certification" and green verbage...
In fact, those are the ones you gotta really watch out for...

[peter.coombe]

Well it is good to see the Lacey act being used for it should be used for - i.e. nailing the illegal loggers at the source instead of causing paperwork headaches for people like me and the vintage instrument trade.

[Tobin]

Federal prosecutors said in this case the poachers worked under the cover of night and left behind a lot of damage.

“And it looked like, some people described it as a bomb going off,” said Assistant U.S. Attorney Seth Wilkinson describing one of the poaching sites discovered in Washington’s Gifford Pinchot National Forest. It was near a popular campground called Iron Creek.

This doesn't really make sense to me. Looking at the photos, those trees are huge. How in the world did they manage to cut them down... at night... that close to a popular campground... without anyone noticing? Chainsaws aren't exactly stealth machines, and they can be heard for miles. Not to mention the sound of huge trees crashing down. Hearing those noises at night would surely attract attention from campers?! And aside from that, how did they manage to make the cuts, fell the trees, cut them up, and haul the lumber out of the woods in the dark? This kind of activity requires a lot of light, noise, men, and equipment. If they're not getting caught, I wonder if it's because someone is turning a blind eye.

[Spruce]

This doesn't really make sense to me. Looking at the photos, those trees are huge. How in the world did they manage to cut them down... at night... that close to a popular campground... without anyone noticing? Chainsaws aren't exactly stealth machines, and they can be heard for miles. Not to mention the sound of huge trees crashing down. Hearing those noises at night would surely attract attention from campers?! And aside from that, how did they manage to make the cuts, fell the trees, cut them up, and haul the lumber out of the woods in the dark? This kind of activity requires a lot of light, noise, men, and equipment. If they're not getting caught, I wonder if it's because someone is turning a blind eye.

Totally doable, but I won't elaborate...
Those trees have a $25K bounty on their heads, so tweekers tend to get creative...

[moxie]

I grew up in the Illinois River valley, famous for black walnut wood. A lot of trees were stolen there off private property. People said the thieves used "Swedish chain saws with car mufflers"MMc

[michaelcj]

Kinda cool to live on a small group of islands where there are Two! count em Two! totally reputable, totally ethical tone wood dealers who really know what they're talking about!!!

Cheers
Your Lopezoid Neighbor

[Bernie Daniel]

This is a widespread problem and IMO happens with loggers having nothing to do with tone woods. Been going on for a long time too!

In the the summer of 1970 my Dad owned a farm in Barron County. Wisconsin as investment property. It had small lake and surrounded by about 60 acres of hardwoods on it. One year he contacted the Wisconsin DNR and had their "tree guy" go through the stand and mark trees with orange paint that should be cut out for the health of the forest.

After they were marked he contacted a local logger to do the clearing. My Dad lived about 90 miles away in St. Paul, Minnesota but since I just happened to be home on leave from basic training in the Army the week they were to do the job so I drove out to the site on the first day of cutting -- got there about mid-day. The logging crew was hard at work and I could tell right away that they did not seem too happy to see me!

As I was looking at the work I noticed several trees that seem to have a slightly different color orange paint. So I ask the foreman about them and he professed not to see a difference in color! And he sure was not interested in discussing it. It was pretty obvious to me that something was going on.

So I told them they needed to stop until we could get to the bottom if it. And I also insisted that they leave the logs in place. Of course he questioned my authority so. Finally they agreed to leave after I threatened that I'd go to the old farm house and call the sheriff -- actually there was no phone in the house but they didn't know that.

So they decided to leave as I requested. I then managed to contact the DNR before going back to St. Paul. I also pad locked a heavy log chain on the gate leading down to the woods. The next day the ranger and the agent who marked the trees initially examined the site and confirmed that those logs were not marked with his paint and the loggers were obviously poaching. They encouraged my Dad to report it to the sheriff and to file a complaint which he did.

I was far far away on Army duty with the "trial" occurred several months later and the DNR was there to testify for the prosecution. But the loggers were local guys and when all the testimony and statements were done it only took the county judge about 5 minutes to dismiss the case. End of story.

[Spruce]

Yikes!

[Eddie Sheehy]

If you're going to poach trees, make sure you cut down the Hangin' Tree first...

[bernabe]

Another guy to keep an eye on. https://www.facebook.com/36376580043...9802425161603/

[MikeEdgerton]

There's 5 minutes of my life I'll never get back

[Dick Hutchings]

Did you watch it twice? I loved it.

[MysTiK PiKn]

This is an interesting view; but I think that there are other issues of greater importance. Of course, if we are to be thorough, then smaller issues also matter. Most maple species make a lot of seeds. They will grow back, if left alone. That takes some 25++ years. Problem is, when what looks like open ground appears, a subdivision is built on it. They start by making it look like the moon, or like a "bomb" hit it. Tree felling is messy. But the real issue is endless compromise for profit. That's been happening for years, decades, centuries. Have you ever seen an ancient forest? Young forests are sustainable. The real thing; not so much. The interrelationships in an old forest are powerful and significant and stable - if left alone.
I live on an acre lot that's mainly treed. I have taken a lot of trees; been doing woodstove for some 8 years. I try to do what I call 'forest pruning'. First the deadfall, then the less desirable trees. I'm near the stopping point on one acre. But I now have sapplings that are 4-5 inch trunks and 40+ feet tall. If I leave it alone, the forest encroaches upon my relatively small lawns. I guesstimated that my land was clear cut some 25+ years ago, before I arrived here. The mature trees I have I call "mother" trees. They stand because they are difficult to fell. Meanwhile, the others slowly mature, if left alone. I like having my own forest with small paths than I can walk through. Decisions I make now affect property value; whether the next owner like trees, or doesn't. You all should hear the birds in nesting season. I have had migrators I didn't know existed. And other animals drop by too sometimes - deer, fox, coyote, beaver, and others more common. rabbit, raccoon, my pet chipmunks, etc.
I hear the ocean floor is covered in plastic particles. I hear ocean trawlers scoop up anything; and what's not marketable is thrown back dead. And the weather is all weird. Population growing. Food shortages. Yeh, there's a few concerns beyond the realm of tonewood. It's easier to care for the small issues; it's another thing to change the world. Maybe this will help derail a multinationals intent. More likely they need to be classed as poachers also; or is it "slaughter", of a different kind, like a bomb hit it. The insanity continues; driven by money - same as this scenario. From that view = this really is a microcosm of the real picture. It's bigger than me. It's coming closer to my home, and yours.
The problem with rules and laws is that if you follow the rules, you can do whatever the hell you like. Example - speeding tickets, are a licence to speed. They don't solve the real problem. It's an education issue; and an evolution issue. It's almost easy to do the right thing; but we don't know. It's a big picture.

Thanks Spruce for an interesting thread.