Thanks, but I do not think we are any better than most other repairers, the point of the pictures was to alleviate the concerns of the original poster, his instrument is an easy repair, and should not hurt his pocket too much
Ok! I'm back, & I do appreciate some of the more positive points about wood, grain, & stress. I'm not a Luthier. The thing that bothers me is that I am in the wrong & it's my fault, until proven innocent for any wrong doing. Case in point, dropping the instrument, hitting it, etc. I've owned this Mandolin, & yes I bought it new, for 5 years. Alot can happen to any material object one has in that time. I can argue my point until the cows come home, & I probably won't phase the Gibson Guitar Company one bit. So I bite the bullet, & I guess I fix it. AS people have mentioned. I can take it to Gryphon Music ( a 5 hour oneway drive ), or Moonstone Guitars (close & a personal friend ). I have corresponded with both parties so far. Really wish I wasn't such a perfectionist, because I will always know that I have a tweaked neck, & not a solid great condition mandolin. Yea! Like The Eagles sing about. " get over it ". Coincidently comes from their Album, " Hell freezes over ". Yea! It took awhile to post some pics, but I'm a musician, not a computer nerd. .......And the Beat Goes On. Later folks.
...
Orcas Island Tonewoods
Free downloads of my mandolin CDs:
"Mandolin Graffiti"
"Mangler Of Bluegrass"
"Overhead At Darrington"
"Electric Mandolin Graffiti"
Further to johns response, heres some photos of one we did today, exactly as per johns description, the ends are ramped in and out, and long grain wood is fitted into the channels
You should see the other one that came in today for broken headstock repair,
Steve
Bernie
____
Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.
This thread brings to light guitar and mandolin structural weaknesses that could be addressed proactively instead of after failure. It also points to the complete uselessness of the warranty accompanying new instruments when most claims are associated with impact or temperature. Last but not least it reveals the fact that their are many repairs being made by both qualified luthier's and learn as you go, I can save a buck doing it myself types. The repairs range from excellent, stronger than original to those performed without clean tight fitting joints or appropriate adhesives. As unlikely as it is that none of these repaired instruments are being resold, have you ever seen a broken neck repair mentioned or even as a feature of a renovation. Even if the the repair were documented and disclosed during the first sale after the repair, the information most likely will not be used as a selling point when the instrument is sold again. Repaired plate cracks or mention of stable cracks or separations are given as reveals in advertising usually reducing the instruments value but no matter how strong or well executed, no one wants to purchase a repaired neck without a huge reduction in the cost of the instrument.
The point the OP makes about burden of proof in a guilty until proven innocent scenario points squarely on the worthlessness of a lifetime warranty. The second point that his mandolin will be compromised/reduced in value unless he replaces the neck with a repair that cost much more than the cheaper glue the shattered pieces together method suggested is also valid. Armchair failure analyst and grocery store availability of hide glue are not helpful to the OP's honest open request for helpful information to resolve this issue.
"A sudden clash of thunder, the mind doors burst open, and lo, there sits old man Buddha-nature in all his homeliness."
CHAO-PIEN
I've had a Taylor, a Martin, and a Gibson back to the factory under warranty. The Taylor went back twice. To simply dismiss the warranty as worthless because of of an unknown cause of damage that looks for all the world like a known cause is a pretty broad brush. Whiplash can occur without an instrument falling. If the instrument is in it's case for example in the back of a car, braced in place and the car suddenly stops the instrument can still move in the case. If anyone needs to redesign something perhaps it is the case so the headstock is sandwiched between padded material and not free to move within the case. Forces can cause issues without people doing a bad thing. That's why they are called accidents.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
Mike can you elaborate on the warranty repairs you had made to show them in context of you not having to prove temperature /humidity or abuse not involved in the approved claim?
"A sudden clash of thunder, the mind doors burst open, and lo, there sits old man Buddha-nature in all his homeliness."
CHAO-PIEN
Sure, lifting bridge, top crack, problem with end pin block, loose brace, neck reset (thanks Martin). Look, as much as some folks want to fault Gibson on this I'm pretty sure any company on face value would have denied that as a warranty claim. I have found that dealing through the dealer you bought it from makes a difference as does the way you approach the company with the problem. I've never had to argue one. That doesn't mean I never will. That same Taylor has developed another problem that I may end up paying for this time, we'll see. There is a serious lump in the fretboard where the neck meets the body. At this point it's an old friend that I hate to see go.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
Hey Danny, there's also Michael Walker up above Wildwood Music in Arcata. He used to work with Randy Wood in his repair shop in Savannah. He's a super nice guy so between him and Steve at Moonstone, you should be able to get it fixed properly.
I second what Robert says...Michael Walker has worked on at least 5 different instruments of mine (mandolins and guitars). I've always been quite happy with his work.
http://www.mwalkerguitarco.com/
As someone who deals with almost every manufacturer direct and makes evaluations and decisions on there behalf in the field (gibson included), lifetime warrantys only apply on something done wrong at manufacture.
They cannot compensate for everything that each individual instrument may go through out in the real world.
Issues associated with humidity are not covered, but say the top breaking away from the kerfing with no evidence of external trauma is covered, as an assumption is drawn that not enough glue or clamping force was used during assembly, or say the lacquer has dis-coloured on the corners where they used a new glue and its reacted over time, its covered.
Seeing both sides of the story and being the meat in the sandwich can sometimes be frustrating, we are guitar players as well, and are very attached to our own personal instruments.
But on the other side, some people are just nuts, we had one who claimed that a split top should be covered under warranty even though his mate threw a can of beer at him and it hit the guitar, his belief was the guitar should be built well enough to absorb the impact, he even took it all the way to the manufacturer and bi-passed us.
Steve
Last edited by Bernie Daniel; Aug-05-2015 at 10:25pm.
Bernie
____
Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.
It has been my experience that sellers on the Mandolin Cafe Classifieds have always been up front about repairs. I've never received an instrument that was significantly misrepresented.
I did have it happen in one case on an eBay purchase where the seller directly misrepresented, in writing a vintage Gibson guitar (claim top in original condition when it actually had about 10 cleats) The matter was dealt with satisfactorily via the resolution process. Even in this case I kind of expect the seller never even looked inside with a mirror & light before making the incorrect claim. So I don't think most sellers misrepresent instruments.
As to guilty until proven innocent part. The contention that this particular Jam Master had structural flaw and "spontaneously" imploded notwithstanding it is clear that 99% of these breaks occur then the instrument falls off a table or is knocked over. People see it happen in real time usually.
A company like Gibson (or any other company) can hardly be expected just to take someone's word that the instrument imploded in the case with no supporting evidence -- if they did how could ever they draw the line? They'd have to repair every neck that came in no questions.
The onus has to be on the owner. If you see a flaw or fault line forming contact someone like your salesperson or at least document with a date marked photo is probably the best approach IMO.
Bernie
____
Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.
WesBrandtLuthier.com
BrandtViols.com
Orcas Island Tonewoods
Free downloads of my mandolin CDs:
"Mandolin Graffiti"
"Mangler Of Bluegrass"
"Overhead At Darrington"
"Electric Mandolin Graffiti"
The mandolin was a 14 year project. I guess it's time to replace the Gibson, with a Eastman AR 805CE Archtop guitar. I know my way around the guitar way more than I ever will on the mandolin. Hopefully I can get a decent buck for the used Jam Master. I will be honest about the repair job to the new buyer. There's at least 3 good luthiers, close by, to fix the problem. Hopefully it will be without too much of a financial stress. I was thinking I could hang on to the Gibson, after the repair job, as a Beater/beach mandolin, but all this rhetoric about "The Broken Neck", that I honestly started, is leaving me a little un-settled. I really need to move on. Thanks Mandolin cafe, & especially this builders/repair forum for all your input. On aside note. The last thingI want anyone to think is that I'm some kind of hustler, scam artist, un- reputable individual, & I'm trying to hustle The gibson Guitar people. Not true. I'm a good soul, conscientious, spiritual being. Namaste.
Back plates do work, but there is also a few issues with them, most times the truss rod is within 3mm of the back of the neck at the thinnest point, therefore the backplate is going to be 3mm or less in thickness and the strength imparted to the repair area is minimal, think of taking some of your soundboard and gluing it over the back of the neck and then shaping it up, it does not leave much for imparted strength.
I am not saying do not do it, I am simply trying to highlight what can be gained from doing such a method,
When we fit splines. we take those splines all the way through until we just touch the fretboard, its not required, but for us its the best process we have found.
Steve
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