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Thread: Good Mandolin for Recording?

  1. #1

    Question Good Mandolin for Recording?

    Hi everyone,

    My first post.

    I am looking to buy my first mandolin. I intend to use it primarily for recording of original music that has some mandolin parts. In other words, I *probably* won't become primarily a mandolin player, but I would like to learn to play certain parts on the mandolin and have them sound good on pro-level recordings. Mostly percussive chords and occasional quick riffs.

    I fully understand that the most important thing in the sound will be the skill of the player, and also the recording engineer, so I get it that it will take a good bit of time to get to that level. But - I play guitar and sometimes banjo on pro recordings in pro studios so I have confidence that I can do this after some amount of time.

    I don't know much about mandolins. I am used to buying quality instruments and I know they can be costly. That said, I would like to spend as little as possible to get something that will be good enough such that the mandolin is not the limiting factor in the sound of the recordings. I really don't want to get something cheap to learn on and then have to upgrade later. I am willing to spend what it will take to get something that will sound at a professional level on a recording (assuming a professional level player is playing it).

    There is really nowhere to try out mandolins where I live (and I checked Craigslist and there was only one listed and it was a super cheap thing, more like a toy).

    I do get to Nashville frequently. Where are the stores in Nashville that I should hit to try some out, and what suggestions do you have for me to try? I am really only worried about sound and playability…. not too worried about looks.

    Sorry this note is so long. Just wanted to make sure to give enough info of what I am looking for.

    Ideas, suggestions? BTW - I've looked around the forum quite a bit and there seem like a lot of great, friendly folks here!

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    its a very very long song Jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    What's your budget? The usual advice is A styles will give you better quality for your money than F style. If you don't mind used you can get a good instrument at a significant savings, The Classifieds here on the cafe are a good place to start. Some good imports from Asia are made by Kentucky, Eastman, The Loar and J Bovier, Older Gibson A styles can be found for between $1000 & $2000 depending on Model and condition. Some fine instruments from independent Luthiers can be found starting around $2000. I'll leave others to suggest shops in Nashville and elsewhere.
    Jim Richmond

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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    As Jim said the best value in mandolins is an A Style mandolin. Some also have built in electronics, Eastman comes to mind as equipped with a pickup.
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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    In Nashville there are two stores that have enough inventory that you can try just about any style, price range and make, to your hearts content: Carter Vintage http://cartervintage.com/mandopage/mandopage.html and down the road a couple miles is Gruhns. Carters in my store of choice right now but I usually visit both on a regular basis. Carters has more in store than listed on their website.

    If you are willing to spend up to $3k you can get a really nice mandolin. They have several Webers in store now. But just playing on their selection is an education in itself. Plus there is nothing as great as playing them in person to find one that fits you.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    [QUOTE=Mandoabc; I fully understand that the most important thing in the sound will be the skill of the player, and also the recording engineer, so I get it that it will take a good bit of time to get to that level. But - I play guitar and sometimes banjo on pro recordings in pro studios so I have confidence that I can do this after some amount of time. [/QUOTE]

    Some food for thought--sometimes the BEST sounding mandolin is NOT the best sounding mandolin for recording. Like you say, it all depends on what is captured in a recording. Of course, technology has improved since the days of the Beatles, but they used Gibson J-160E acoustics (unamplified) because they recorded well. And most guitar players would not consider a J-160e to be a great "acoustic" guitar.

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    Hi, and welcome to the forum!

    I'm familiar with the pro recording world, and have played mandolin for a while now (with a deeper guitar background).

    For a tight budget, I think a safe general recommendation would be to look at an A-style, F-hole Eastman. I've heard and played a few, and they're a good bang-for-buck, especially on the playability side. As an affordable import, they tend to be better made than mandolins in the next price tier down.

    One question that may be important for your choice of instrument is "What style of music do you play?" Will you be mostly in first position, for things like fiddle tunes and folk music? Or will you be using more of the neck and the upper frets, as in Bluegrass, Rock, or Jazz?

    The clarity of notes up the neck, especially on the high E string, is one thing that can separate a really good mandolin from a lesser one. Bluegrass players also look for a certain amount of warmth and "bark" on the low end, but check the notes on the E and A strings up the neck if you plan to do much playing there. Some instruments -- especially the low cost ones -- can be quieter up there, or even dead sounding. I don't get up the neck very often, since I mostly play Irish and Scottish "fiddle tunes," but when I do go up there, I want to hear the notes ring out. That can get expensive, in mandolin purchasing terms. Or you may get lucky and find a lower cost instrument with a good strong voice up the neck.

    I also recommend checking intonation very closely. Cheap instruments sometimes have intonation issues. It may just be a bad setup (bridge position) at the store, but beware of poor fret installations or anything else that's affecting intonation. Mandolins are fussy little beasts when it comes to intonation, due to the short scale. They're hard enough to keep in tune during a recording session without also fighting intonation issues.

    Good luck with your mandolin hunt!

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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    A good recording studio can make even the cheapest mandolin sound good, I have recorded with a $95 made in Korea mandolin and also with a Flatiron Festival and couldn`t tell much difference in the two recordings thanks to the engineer that was turning the knobs....

    Also you might look for a place that will rent you an instrument just long enough to do a recording, like they do for schools etc...

    Willie

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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    With the following being said: "I would like to spend as little as possible to get something that will be good enough such that the mandolin is not the limiting factor in the sound of the recordings. I really don't want to get something cheap to learn on and then have to upgrade later. I am willing to spend what it will take to get something that will sound at a professional level on a recording (assuming a professional level player is playing it)", it is not too clear on what the budget in mind really is. Eastmans are mentioned but these, while known as good-for-the-money instruments, would have a hard time falling into the category of "spend what it takes to achieve professional level sound". After the OP tries out the wide range of instruments at those establishments, it might be observed that a professional sounding and playing A-style (with F or oval hole) mandolin will typically start at ~ $2K or more. Thus rather than Eastmans, Pavas, Collings, and other makers come to mind plus at those mentioned stores, several pre-owned mandolins are probably chilling on the walls awaiting serious consideration.

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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    I was just visiting Fiddlers Green Music Shop here in Austin on friday and Ben was playing on a teens Gibson A that sounded really good. He said it had a nice internal pick-up and demonstrated by plugging in to a small amp...basically, it sounded about as good as an amplified mandolin could and is priced at only $1100. The old Gibson A's are hard to beat for general recording. Give them a call, maybe still for sale.
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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    Kentucky KM-150 is under $300 to your door if you are in the US. Compare it's sound to the more expensive ones. I can't say it sounds worse than the expensive ones - at least in a youtube video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCfPdl86ExQ

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Poole View Post
    A good recording studio can make even the cheapest mandolin sound good, I have recorded with a $95 made in Korea mandolin and also with a Flatiron Festival and couldn`t tell much difference in the two recordings thanks to the engineer that was turning the knobs....
    I don't know that I'd agree with "making the cheapest mandolin sound good." It's true that modern recording techniques can do amazing things with instruments that don't sound that great acoustically. But there are still limits, and there's a reason why -- generally speaking -- you don't see pro musicians recording with the cheapest instruments.

    In my experience, you get the quickest and easiest results by starting with something that already sounds good in front of the microphone, with minimal help in post production. And also an instrument that inspires the player to perform at their best. It doesn't mean that everyone recording needs a top name, $5k-$20k instrument. But I do think there's a cut-off point, where both the recording engineer and the artist will be working harder to nail it with a cheap instrument.

    Not to get all philosophical and ranty, but "fix it in the mix" is one reason why so much modern music sounds the way it does...

    Quote Originally Posted by renoyd View Post
    Thus rather than Eastmans, Pavas, Collings, and other makers come to mind plus at those mentioned stores, several pre-owned mandolins are probably chilling on the walls awaiting serious consideration.
    Good point. A secondhand Collings A would be a good recording instrument, if the budget can stretch that far. Good resale value too, if the instrument is no longer needed later on.

  13. #12
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    What would seem to meet your needs would be an all-solid-woods, hand-carved mandolin -- probably f-hole, though an oval-hole would work as well, depending on the sound you want -- for $1K or less. In that range you're looking at mostly Asian-made, though not exclusively -- if you buy new.

    The kinda "standard" mandolin sound nowadays appears to be a carved-top, f-hole instrument, but that design definitely does not exhaust mandolin possibilities; there are flat-or-canted-top oval-holes (Big Muddy, Martin), plus a variety of carved-top oval-holes that could be considered.

    Since you visit Nashville, you will have a wide selection to test at Carter Vintage and Gruhn's. My 2¢ would be to ID a price range, go to both stores, and try out everything they have in that range, new or used. You might consider taking a mandolin-playing friend with you, since you're not currently a mandolinist, but if you have sufficient stringed-instrument expertise to play some riffs and chords, you will at least get a feel for what you prefer.

    You have a specific idea in mind for the instrument's use, and it wouldn't surprise me if you also have a certain sound "in your head" that you want to hear. As you know, what's "good for recording" is hugely dependent on the studio, its equipment, the engineer and producer, so what you want is a mandolin that's good to play, that makes the sound you have in mind, and that's of sufficient quality -- and backed by a good dealership -- to be reliable and worth keeping.

    You don't have to spend thousands, unless you want to; I've recorded with a $25 Strad-O-Lin, as well as with expensive Gibson F-models. Some of the brands mentioned above are excellent suggestions, but I'd rely on my own ears and play as many as I could get my hands on -- luckily, not a problem in Nashville.
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    Lost my boots in transit terzinator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Poole View Post
    A good recording studio can make even the cheapest mandolin sound good, I have recorded with a $95 made in Korea mandolin and also with a Flatiron Festival and couldn`t tell much difference in the two recordings thanks to the engineer that was turning the knobs....
    This is very true.

    Even at home, a good mic can make a big difference, and can make a lesser instrument sound awesome.

    That said, a nicer instrument might inspire you to play better.

    So, my feeling is to hunt down a mandolin that you enjoy playing, and sounds nice to you, and will allow you to bring out the best in your music. Don't worry about the recording aspect of it, specifically. That will kind of take care of itself.

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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    I agree with several above. A mandolin that sounds good, or great, on the best microphone possible, would be the way to go with recording. The better the mandolin sounds, the better the recording. A direct pick up through a jack in the instrument would provide a good signal, but would require mixing and adding effects to get the tone and sustain you want. I have done it both ways on my CD's. Good luck to you!
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    its a very very long song Jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    Regarding recording, Sometimes a POS instrument has a tone that sits well in the mix, but might not sound so good any other place. All considered I'd get the best sounding instrument I could find and worry about the recording when the time comes to record.
    Jim Richmond

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    Oh, and one other point I wanted to make to the OP:

    I am looking to buy my first mandolin. I intend to use it primarily for recording of original music that has some mandolin parts. In other words, I *probably* won't become primarily a mandolin player, but I would like to learn to play certain parts on the mandolin and have them sound good on pro-level recordings. Mostly percussive chords and occasional quick riffs.
    Watch out, that's what I thought I was doing when I bought a mandolin. I was an acoustic, electric, and bottleneck slide guitar player, working on a few recording projects where I wanted a higher pitched instrument in a few parts.

    Now I play very little guitar, mostly mandolin and octave mandolin. There is potential for obsession here. You've been warned.

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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    I'd think a mid-missouri/big muddy flat-top would do just fine! Well under $600 bucks in the secondary market. Heck, a Flatiron Army-navy pancake would also be just great!

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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    OP:

    Can you direct us to a sample or two of your already-recorded music?

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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    I think a Kentucky KM900 or KM950 would do the trick. Really excellent for the $.
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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    I have a cheap oval hole A model that sounds really good, it isn't the loudest but it has a really sweet sound nice clear highs and big clear bass, since you are recording it doesn't have to be the loudest, as long as the mandolin you pick has a good setup you should be good.
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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    Also keep in mind that you can have a great sounding mandolin, but if you try to record with the wrong mic then it will be disappointing for you. There are many threads in this forum on choosing the right mic for your (future) mandolin. If you are recording in a pro studio with good engineer then hopefully they will have the right mic for the job.

  27. #22
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    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    If you know recording engineers, you might ask them for recommendations of mandos that record well in the studios and mixes you anticipate. I know that my best Celtic, hand-crafted by a fine luthier, projects a resonant deep tone and is great for solo playing, while my cheapest Chinese A- and F-types (fifty bucks!) have much brighter but thinner voices that work better for pointed effects.
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  28. #23

    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    Wow - so many great responses!

    I'll study them all and explore all the ideas and recommendations. I've got some learning to do.

    Thanks especially to Nashville for the store recommendations. I've been to Gruhn's many times (at three different locations over many years) but never been to Carter's. I think a good next step will be to get down there (not sure when I will be there next) and try a bunch out. Wish there was a place to try up here.

    Foldedpath - I definitely hear your warning.

    Everyone - thanks so much! I truly appreciate all the thoughtful responses! This was a great beginning to my education.

    Thanks.

  29. #24

    Default Re: Good Mandolin for Recording?

    Pava and Silver Angel mandolins just posted in the classifieds. Good prices for some great mandolins to consider.

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