Chord plotting

[boblang]

I've been trying to get to grips with mandolin chords. There are plenty of chord charts, and the invaluable Fretboard Roadmaps book, but nothing I could find that brought it all together in one diagram. Then I had an idea and wondered what would happen if we had a mandolin with a lot more than 4 (pairs of) strings, and a v-e-r-y long fretboard? The result was the the diagram shown here:



The double horizontal lines represent many (pairs of) strings tuned in 5ths, and the vertical lines represent some arbitrary position on the fretboard. The centre spot represents any root of any major chord. The remaining spots show other roots, major 3rds, perfect 5ths and dominant 7ths. Lines from the root link to nearby 3rds and 5ths on adjacent strings.

Notice how the linking lines form a complete loop from the centre spot, up to the 5th, up and across to a root 2 octave higher, then back down again via more 3rds, 5ths and roots until the original root is reached. This loop repeats three times in different places on the diagram and shows the relative positions of the notes of the chord. There are also a number of incomplete loops.

The centre spot can be any note we like, although we must remember that on a real instrument the strings terminate at the nut!

Let's start with a simple case: G major. Assume the centre spot is the 3rd fret of the E string. We can immediately see the position of the 3rd on the A string, and the remaining two open strings make the 5th (open D) and repeat the root (open G).

Let's try another major chord: A major. In this case it's more convenient to use the root spot on left hand side of the fourth string up on the diagram. Let's say this is the open A string. Of course, the open E string is the fifth, leaving two more strings to handle. The second fret on the D string is also a 5th, and it's a bit of stretch but the 6th fret on the G string gives us the 3rd. Now we have a two finger A major chord that doesn't appear on many chord charts, but which is perfectly playable. You should also see how you can quickly get a two finger A7 chord.

With some small adjustments, you can get minor chords (flatten the 3rd by one fret), diminished chords (flatten the 5th), suspended 4 chords (sharpen 3rd), and major 7 chords (sharpen the 7th). From this, we can get a two finger E minor.

Of course, it's not presenting anything you didn't know already, but I'm finding it very useful for my own playing and I thought I'd share it with the rest of the community to see if anyone else finds it helpful.

Bob

[Phil Goodson]

I drew out the same sort of thing years ago when I started learning the mandolin.
I found it very handy to look over occasionally. Each time I sat down with it, I seemed to find some new note relationship that I hadn't previously noticed.

[Killian King]

You might like this as well.
http://www.calgaryuke.com/ukerichard...nstruments.pdf

[JeffD]

I find that the most benefit from diagrams like that comes to the person figuring them out.

Its so cool. There are so many symmetries and repeating patterns to take advantage of. You can learn a little and apply it all over the dang place.

[Rosemary Philips]

I find that the most benefit from diagrams like that comes to the person figuring them out.

I totally agree, Jeff. I've just been revisiting double stops and am finding that puzzling through them myself, rather than looking at a pre-made diagram, is a totally different--and invaluable--experience. It's fun to realize again and again just how cool the mandolin is.

[JeffD]

It's fun to realize again and again just how cool the mandolin is.

Isn't that true! My gosh it keeps me in the game. It really appeals to my sense of the world.

To discover this little thing here, and then to figure out that it is just a single instance of a fret board wide principle, which generates single instances all over the place in all keys. You can feel like a genius by remembering only two things. Its amazing.

We all start by learning a pile of individual instances, and it takes some experience, some curiosity, some poking at it, and likely a book or a workshop, to recognize the pattern inside the pile. But the first time that happens, that first "ahaa" moment, generates so many endorphins - its a natural high.

So that high gets us looking for other patterns and other endorphins and soon enough we are addicted.

I think learning the instrument is the second most fun you can have on the thing. The first being playing something you know well or nailing a killer break while being stared down.

[boblang]

You might like this as well.
http://www.calgaryuke.com/ukerichard...nstruments.pdf

Interesting, but I find the coloured spots most confusing. I can't remember what each spot colour means. Perhaps I'm just a numbers guy? I was also initially confused by the term "flattened 7th" - I've always known them as dominant 7ths.

[Bertram Henze]

Since this structure is unlimited and repetitive in any direction, the central base note might not need to be painted differently from the other dark grey diamonds, and the dark grey diamonds could have a "1" in them (maybe white for better visibility) - I like my graphical languages simple and repetitive across meta layers

Nice parquetry pattern for your practising room.

[boblang]

Since this structure is unlimited and repetitive in any direction, the central base note might not need to be painted differently from the other dark grey diamonds, and the dark grey diamonds could have a "1" in them (maybe white for better visibility) - I like my graphical languages simple and repetitive across meta layers

Nice parquetry pattern for your practising room.

You are, of course, quite right in all respects. In my first version of the diagram, the root symbols were identical, but when I tried to describe how the diagram worked, I discovered I that I was unable to write a good explanation. Emphasising the central root spot made the explanation easier to write, but I am still agonising over whether or not I should make all the spots the same in the next version.

It never occurred to me to put the "1" in white (d'oh). There was insufficient contrast when I tried it in black, and there was also a question over whether it should be "1" or "R" (root). In the end I figured that if the 3, 5, and 7 were clearly marked then the roots would be obvious.

I'm thinking of getting the diagram reworked into a knitting pattern and selling woollen jumpers and beanie hats!

[Bertram Henze]

I'm thinking of getting the diagram reworked into a knitting pattern and selling woollen jumpers and beanie hats!

Clothing is always a rich field for patterns

[David Lewis]

A dominant 7 is the fifth of the chord: so in a I7 IV7 V7 progression, only the V7 is dominant. The others are 7.

So, in C, the dominant 7 is G7...

Just so you know...

[belbein]

Boblang: We're working on the same things, as it turns out. And like you, I'm a visual learner, or a pattern learner, and so this kind of thing is very helpful. In fact, I've been thinking that I needed to do this more-than-four strings thing, so I thank you for doing the grunt work.

Just one question. This has bothered me all night: Are your 7s in the right place? I thought that the half steps were 3 to 4 and 7 to 8. If that's true, you're showing all of your 7s as flatted 7ths. Maybe that's the intent, or maybe I remember the pattern wrong--it wouldn't be the first time I got something on the fretboard wrong.

[Bertram Henze]

This has bothered me all night: Are your 7s in the right place? I thought that the half steps were 3 to 4 and 7 to 8. If that's true, you're showing all of your 7s as flatted 7ths.

There's a difference between scales and chords. The seventh in a 7th chord (e.g. A 7) is a minor seventh in most cases. Otherwise the chord would be noted as A maj7. If that chosen 7th is also part of the scale or not depends on the scale and the chord root's position versus the 1st note of the scale. (Example: in a piece in C major, the G7 chord (GBDF) has a minor 7th that fits the scale.)

Did I just use that dry language I mentioned in another thread?

[belbein]

Ah-HA! So I was right ... but wrong. Thanks for clearing it up (!) BH.

[hank]

I made this sheet years ago with plans of remaking and cleaning it up. I use the location and progression of the half step patterns of four to help me recognize unusual key shifts etc. To my way of thinking the symmetry of fifth tuning is perfect for melody and double stops but the more strings involved goodby octave.

[hank]

The photo is portrait in my file.

[belbein]

Hank--cool chart. But what does this mean:

[hank]

This turned on it side is 1-4-5 of each key with relative minors. Above it the fingerboard showing the 1/2 step groupings in open position. Notice it matches key of C major scale in the group running vertically on the left. This group matches the circle of fifths below the 1-4-5/ relative minor in fifth groupings. These were three different charts that I put all together as one. Their position was more of finding space on the page than weaving them together as one. I ran the scale fingerboards in division of fifths vertically instead of radically around the circle of fifths to show the progression of 1/2 step groupings. Clockwise direction in the circle of fifths moves the 1/2 step quads upwards in the charts or from low to high on your fingerboard laterally. If you know G scale then you can see D scale has only shifted the 1/2 step quads up a fifth, etc. or your playing along with an unknown key but you have found the 1/2 step. The scales help a slow learner like me identify the key more quickly.

[hank]

Also keep in mind the relative minors of the identified key may be the actual key of the song.

[choctaw61]

Well if i didn't know before,now i know that i didn't know.But if i keep reading this thread,I know that i won't never know nothing! Ok,can someone plz guide me back to my room.It's time for captain kangaroo!

[Mark Wilson]

I find that the most benefit from diagrams like that comes to the person figuring them out.

That is true. I've scribbled these patterns while stuck somewhere boring without my mandolin and it completely made my day.

[Bertram Henze]

I know that i won't never know nothing!

Apart from that triple negative, this is a very elegant variation on the Barber's Paradox. Captain Cangaroo can't help you now...

[Dick Hutchings]

Barber's Paradox

Thanks for that Bertram. After reading it my brain is now mush and I'll have to go and get a coffee.

[JeffD]

Hank--cool chart. But what does this mean:

This turned on it side is 1-4-5 of each key with relative minors.

That's it.

[choctaw61]

Ooooohhhh! Thanks Bertram.I don't know a thing about music all very confusing but I'm learning. Newbie U know.But speaking of barber's.There was a time I could have been considered the Bill Monroe of straight razors! Lol. That was a good one tho friend I liked that. Have a blessed day!