Looking for information on these bowlbacks

[Sammysteves]

i got both of these when cleaning out my grandparents house. i cant find model numbers or anything on them i was wondering if anyone recognizes them or could possibly give me more information or a selling price. thank you!

[EdHanrahan]

Far from expert on the details, but the general quality is (indirectly) proportional to the number of "barrel staves" in the bowl. That makes one of them a student model (9 sections maybe?) done in maple, and the other a fair bit nicer (looks like 21 or maybe a lot more), and it looks like rosewood. Some of the highest quality ones had 35 or so -yes, usually an odd number- but, again, I'm no expert.

The student one also has a questionable-quality patch at the base of the neck - may not be worth fixing. (That would require sort of rebuilding the bowl).

The nicer one is missing its original bridge, but... Are those guitar bridge-pins decorating the ends of where the bridge used to be? Not real common, but it was done on occasion.

And the "G R C" inlaid in the (maybe tortoise?) pickguard should be a clue to others. Also it would help to note any papers, such as string packages, found in the case.

Hope this helps!

[JeffD]

Does GRC refer to anyone significant to you. Might not want to sell them.

[Sammysteves]

No theyre not initials or anything like that from my family at least, i was hoping it would be a clue to identifying them but i cant seem to find anything.

[Sammysteves]

thank you! i actually still have the bridge from the one thats missing it in the case, it just needs to be put back on.

[Capt. E]

The headstock on the better mandolin is like those found on early Martin mandolins. I don't remember seeing that headstock on anything else, but i don't recognize the pickguard. It could have been built by Martin for another brand. And, are those holes or positioning pegs where the bridge goes?
The "cloud" tailpiece on the other says American to me and looks like a student quality Lyon and Healy build.

By the way, very nice case for the "Martin?"...top-opening made of leather. Would love to have one like that.

[brunello97]

Easy does it on the Martin attribution......That headstock profile was also used on a range of mandolins under the Ditson label (probably made by Vega) and also on the whole "Mayflower" series some of which may have been made by Vega, and perhaps others in Chicago, some even perhaps by the Larsons themselves.

Martin bowlbacks have a very distinct bowl / body shape. The bowlbacks they made for others have the same distinct shape, in fact they typically look exactly like Martins--same scratchplate,e tc. A few good photos of the instrument out of its case should make a up / down Martin distinction obvious. My initial guess would be a negative on being a Martin.

It does appear to have a distinctive neck joint which is somewhat similar to a joint that was used by Martin on some of their early bowls, though, along with other companies. Here at the MC it is sometimes called a "volute" referencing the shellfish, rather than the architectural element and the source of a good deal of debate around here.

Selling prices will be directly related to their playability which is directly related to the condition of the neck. Ebay regularly has ads for mandolins along with incorrect and completely speculative dreams of their provenance. (Martin, Larson, etc. etc.) No need for us to contribute to furthering that practice. In prime condition, for the rosewood mandolin: fetching $300-350 would be super happy dance. For the maple: $125 would make your grandpa happy. Lots of these out on the market. An MC member picked up a spotless Vega made Ditson the other day for $295. The only bidder.

Mick

[Capt. E]

I really didn't think it was Martin made, just that the headstock was similar...perhaps it is Vega made or some other Chicago/Midwest builder. Again, the pickguard is somewhat unusual.
I agree, $300 would be a very nice price for the rosewood mandolin, what with the missing tailpiece cover. I'd take the cover off the other one and put it on the rosewood instrument. Should fit fine. The case might add an extra $75 or so.
The neck on the other one seems to have had some very questionable repairs. It is almost certainly a wall hanger.

[Martin Jonas]

In prime condition, for the rosewood mandolin: fetching $300-350 would be super happy dance. For the maple: $125 would make your grandpa happy.

Agree on the first, but not the second: it's unfortunately effectively worthless because of the amateur neck repair. There's a bolted-on metal brace at the neck joint which can only be bad news, especially for what appears to be a very entry-level mandolin.

The rosewood one looks quite nice, especially the engraved closed tuners.

Martin

[Jim Garber]

The maple one is similar to lowend ones sold by Lyon & Healy (retail or wholesale). The repair is abominable and makes the value about whatever you can sell the parts for. It does look like it has a clue tailpiece but check to see that all the hooks are on it otherwise worthless. Tuners might be OK. To my eyes and thru the fuzzy cell phone photo, the other one looks more Italian than American vintage. The four post tailpiece was used pretty early too.

[brunello97]

..... the other one looks more Italian than American vintage. The four post tailpiece was used pretty early too.

Hmmm. Could be Italian: the curved end of the fretboard, glued on bling bridge position markers, tailpiece, tulipwood banding around the top 'skirt'. Bowl shape and neck look American, though. But you don't see that fretboard curvature on many (if any) American mandolins. There was a guy around here a couple years ago who convinced himself he had an unlabeled Vinaccia with an similar amount of evidence.

Yeah, maybe my estimate of $125 for the maple one was ambitious thinking the market for scrap brass was higher than it it is.

Still the cloud tailpiece and tuners ought to fetch $50-75 on their own, maybe less if the mandolin is thrown in.

What do the three letters in the Ballentine's beer scratchplate logo suggest? Are they "B R C"?

Mick

[vic-victor]

Unlikely a Vinaccia, of course. But I am pretty sure I've seen a similar three circles logo before and it rings the bell for a Catania-made instrument. Can't remember exactly wat it was, but sounds like a reasonable guess at least. The bowl is 21 staves, like most Puglisi's