Virzi installed

[Demetrius]

Hi, this question may have been asked before but I was unable to find an answer.
Can a virzi be installed into a mandolin after the fact?
Some volume loss doesn't really matter to me, I totally love what
I've heard consistent in virzi equips instruments. I'm just wondering
if it is possible to get one inside there after the mandolin has already been built.

Thank you,

[Rodney Riley]

Pop the back off and do anything you want inside. Then close it up
(A lot of work really, but it can be done. )

[MysTiK PiKn]

or if you could find or create some kind of really unusual tool. = kinda like the coat hanger you use to get into an older car w the keys locked inside - and sneak through the ff holes.
Or - see how far inside skinny fingers could reach
and just glue it there.
Instantaneous brain wave says temporarily attach it to the outside, as a test experiment. dunno if that would change anything. just a thought. Not recommended on your 10k mando.

I have been tempted to tear the back off my beater mando - it's just plywood. Trouble is it sounds pretty good w a one-piece bridge. (sigh) the temptation of creativity vs the threat of damage.

[Tavy]

MisTik: just so you know a Virzi will not fit through the F-holes (or an oval hole for that matter), has to be installed when the instrument's built.

They have of course been removed via F holes, but in pieces...

[JEStanek]

I will suggest experimenting with strings and picks a LOT prior to doing this surgery on your mandolin that could result in God Knows What difference. I had a mandolin with virzis in it that Brian Dean built. I can offer no advice on what it sounded like with and without them. I really enjoyed the tone and voice from that mandolin but way more went into that than just the verizis.

In answer to your question, yes, you can certainly add one. It may require the back to come off. It will cost you a fair bit.

Jamie

[RichM]

When I built my Saga kit, Lynn Dudenbostel was selling some Virzis he made in the classifieds. I really wanted to buy one and install it in my kit, so I could say the mandolin was a collaboration with Lynn Dudenbostel. Unfortunately, he sold them all before I got one.

[terzinator]

Can a virzi be installed into a mandolin after the fact?

Thank you,

You're welcome.

[Petrus]

Maybe you're not clear on the size of the Virzi ...

[terzinator]

if one of the more artistic among you could draw a picture of tiny craftsmen inside a mandolin, constructing a Virzi, that would be really cool. Maybe have a regular-sized guy handing them the pieces of wood through the F-hole.

I'd put it on a T-shirt, I would.

[pianoman89]

The engineer inside of me says it can be done. Really, it can. Comes down to how much patience you have.. working through the the sound hole while peering through the endpin hole... if you really want to try it I offer to design a folding Virzi that can be installed without disassembling the instrument... Should I get a patent on that?

[plexi]

I think it's like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole not worth it. I'm saving up for a H-5 kit you have to start somewhere.
http://parts.siminoff.net/virzi-tone-producer.aspx

Or steam the back off and go for it. It just depends how much you value your time.

[mandroid]

maybe the transporter room can beam a replicator made one into your mandolin?

[Darren Bailey]

Maybe you could design little wooden plates to sit inside the ear - that way you'd get the effect from every musical instrument played - the tone of all music would meet your desired standard and I think you'd get a lot of attention onstage - dependig on how much you alloweed to stick out from your ears.

[Petrus]

I'd like to experiment with different sizes and shapes of virzi to see what difference they make. Oblong, different shaped holes, etc. Maybe attach one with springs to get a reverb effect.

[Tavy]

There are certainly all kinds of interesting things that could be tried, I suspect they are no magic bullet though.

[Paul Busman]

I work as a circulating nurse in a hospital and I've seen surgeons do some amazing things laparoscopically, through incisions 10mm long or less. I'm sure they could install that virzi for you. Of course, you'd have to buy tens of thousands of dollars worth of laparoscopic instrumentation. To do a REALLY good job, a Da Vinci surgical robot would be just the thing if you have a spare million or so hanging around.

[JEStanek]

The virzis in my Labraid weren't like that traditional Gibson one. The trick is, the base of the virzi must fit well to the plate. It's the top driving the suspended secondary plate (virzi) that will affect the sound propagation along with the new altered mass of the top affecting how it is driven by the strings. Lots of stuff going on with NO guarantee you will like the end results.

I think, in general instruments with virzis were built for them to be there. They aren't typically aftermarket add ons.

That's why I suggested altering strings and picks to alter your tone first. Much cheaper and easier to do. Plus, if you don't like the results from one set, it's easier to move on to another experiment... Virzi-ectomy is not as easy.

Jamie

[Timbofood]

I would have to agree with cap'n Stanek, the feet must fit just so, and making that fit (short of using the aforementioned DaVinci unit) would be an interesting project indeed followed by the magical insertion of the plate itself! If experimentation is the plan, do what Roger Siminoff did and make a mandolin with removable back for just such an occasion.


"Fortunately, I keep mah feathers numbered....." Foghorn Leghorn

[Tom C]

I bet this guy can make it work... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9VZGZB6FbM

[wildpikr]

Jamie pointed out earlier that installing a virzi might be costly...but if you don't like the sound after it's in...

There's a link in this past mandolincafe interview with audio when Mike Marshall and Todd Phillips removed the virzi from Mike's Loar: http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/pub...s_001170.shtml

Just some food for thought...

[Hendrik Ahrend]

I think, in general instruments with virzis were built for them to be there. They aren't typically aftermarket add ons.

Jamie

What makes you think so? I mean, is there any evidence that Virzi-Gibsons were especially prepared for the Virzi - other than notches in the tone bars? Also, some of them were definitely reopened in order to be virzified.

[lenf12]

You're correct Jamie, they weren't meant to be an aftermarket add on. They would be added at the factory for one of the fairly few Virzi orders by opening the back, notching the tone bars on 5 series instruments, fitting the feet to the inner contour of the top and putting it all back together without a trace. Seems to be easier on a F-2 or F-4 as far as not having to notch out the tone bars. I also agree with Henry's above statement and further, have no reason to believe they were pre-installed during the regular production runs unless there was already an order but instead were retrofitted when the order was in house.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Petrus]

Well, my thought was to do it with a kit mandolin, so you can do the install while you're working on thicknessing the top and the braces so that it would fit in properly. I would guess the feet of the virzi should align with the feet of the bridge on the opposite side of the wood so that as it resonates the virzi resonates along with it. I might be wrong about that; none of the photos allow you to see how the virzi attaches precisely although it seems aligned with the center of the f holes, like the bridge usually is. Braces aren't an issue if you look at the oval hole mandolin in the middle photo.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

I also agree with Henry's above statement and further, have no reason to believe they were pre-installed during the regular production runs unless there was already an order but instead were retrofitted when the order was in house.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

At Gibson, from 1923 until the end of 1924, the Virzi was an option for all mando-family instruments - pre installed or an add on even for non-Gibson instruments. They were standard and pre installed on Style 5 Instruments beginning somewhere in early 1924. The Virzi was dropped from the catalog after Loar's departure in Dec. '24. Only very few Virzis were installed after that, apparently until the supply ran out. Already in a 1925 accessory catalog, "cancelled" was rubber stamped across the Virzi page (although Gibson kept selling Virzi violins after that), as Roger Siminoff notes.
Roger also states that Virzi Style 5 instruments' tops were tuned with the Virzi in place. Tony Williamson claims that the tone bars of Virzi F5s have a different layout. I'm not so sure about any of these claims. Why would one notch the tone bars (instead of clip the Virzi feet anyway), if their layout was Virzi-adapted?

[Timbofood]

I was under the impression they were like "leather seats" in a car. A "premium option" available from the factory.