Pava Player versus a Northfield M

[MandoJason]

That's the same problem I have. I like coated strings for their ease of playability, and it reduces the rust issue (and green fingers), but I haven't found a set of strings yet that doesn't start to lose intonation pretty noticeably after 3-4 weeks. I can't figure out how people keep playing strings past this point, unless they're just not hearing it?

Yep, Im in the same boat, after about 3 weeks even with EXP/coated strings I notice intonation issues (slight, but enough to be a bother to the ear) and I really notice the deadening of the tone. I teach mandolin so I am on my instrument a lot but I change every 2 weeks...not cheap but I love the sound!

[Eric C.]

Yep, Im in the same boat, after about 3 weeks even with EXP/coated strings I notice intonation issues (slight, but enough to be a bother to the ear) and I really notice the deadening of the tone. I teach mandolin so I am on my instrument a lot but I change every 2 weeks...not cheap but I love the sound!

Same issue here. Three weeks and intonation starts getting weird. Uncoated strings last only a week due to them going to junk from my fingers.

[Tobin]

As I understand it, it's because the bottom of the string gets a depression. When that gets big/deep enough it throws off the intonation (I think because the scale length must change a bit?) For pianos the striking mechanism doesn't cause the string to deform that way.

Yeah, flattening of the string where it contacts the frets is probably the biggest cause for intonation issues. I always look at mine when I remove them, and it's pretty obvious where the frets were. I guess I probably play with a heavier left hand that some players. But it makes a nice pattern of shiny flattened spots on the undersides of the strings.

What's strange is that I pretty consistently notice the intonation problem occurring on the G strings at the 7th fret when played with the open D strings, and the A strings at the 7th fret when played with the open E strings. But it doesn't seem to be much of a problem with the D strings at the 7th fret when played with the open A strings. Not sure why this pattern seems to happen for me, regardless of brand, but it's where I notice intonation going wonky. It's always refreshing to put on a new set and have that intonation back to near perfect (as perfect as it can get on a 12-TET fretted instrument, anyway), but I know it'll start sounding "off" within a week, and unbearable by 3 weeks.

The A/E strings are always the first to start sounding sour together, and I can alleviate it with an interim change of these courses. But eventually that G/D comparison will sound too terrible to stand. Another one that I can't live with is when the two strings in a course will be perfectly tuned together when open (and checked with harmonics) but start to intonate differently up the fretboard. I have to watch my finger pressure to make sure I'm not bending them unequally or putting different pressure on them, but when they start to get out of tune with each other on fretted notes, it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

Because I do have sweaty hands, I tend to get dark/rough spots on the A/E strings, sometimes even after less than half an hour of playing. So every few days I restore them with Nevr-Dull. This could possibly lead to intonation issues as well, if the rust and polishing are changing the physical diameter of the strings at certain spots.

[Dick Hutchings]

I'll have to pay closer attention to the intonation when I change my strings. I must admit, my A pair sounds way out on the 7th fret. I thought it might have something to do with the bridge shape for that pair. What was this topic again?

[MandoJason]

Yeah, flattening of the string where it contacts the frets is probably the biggest cause for intonation issues. I always look at mine when I remove them, and it's pretty obvious where the frets were. I guess I probably play with a heavier left hand that some players. But it makes a nice pattern of shiny flattened spots on the undersides of the strings.

What's strange is that I pretty consistently notice the intonation problem occurring on the G strings at the 7th fret when played with the open D strings, and the A strings at the 7th fret when played with the open E strings. But it doesn't seem to be much of a problem with the D strings at the 7th fret when played with the open A strings. Not sure why this pattern seems to happen for me, regardless of brand, but it's where I notice intonation going wonky. It's always refreshing to put on a new set and have that intonation back to near perfect (as perfect as it can get on a 12-TET fretted instrument, anyway), but I know it'll start sounding "off" within a week, and unbearable by 3 weeks.

The A/E strings are always the first to start sounding sour together, and I can alleviate it with an interim change of these courses. But eventually that G/D comparison will sound too terrible to stand. Another one that I can't live with is when the two strings in a course will be perfectly tuned together when open (and checked with harmonics) but start to intonate differently up the fretboard. I have to watch my finger pressure to make sure I'm not bending them unequally or putting different pressure on them, but when they start to get out of tune with each other on fretted notes, it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

Because I do have sweaty hands, I tend to get dark/rough spots on the A/E strings, sometimes even after less than half an hour of playing. So every few days I restore them with Nevr-Dull. This could possibly lead to intonation issues as well, if the rust and polishing are changing the physical diameter of the strings at certain spots.

Hey Tobin, I'm not familiar with Nevr-Dull...do you recommend it? I'll look into it...when we're touring and changing strings right before a show is too big a hassle (going out of tune on stage) I think that would be a nice back-up plan.

thanks for any info/experience you can relay....
jason

[Tobin]

Hey Tobin, I'm not familiar with Nevr-Dull...do you recommend it? I'll look into it...when we're touring and changing strings right before a show is too big a hassle (going out of tune on stage) I think that would be a nice back-up plan.

thanks for any info/experience you can relay....
jason

Someone else had mentioned it a while back when I was complaining about rusty strings, and I gave it a try. It works wonders!

If you're not familiar with it, it's a can of cotton (?) wadding that's soaked in mineral spirits, and possibly other stuff. You just pull off a small piece and use it to polish stuff like silver, chrome, or whatever. It works well for removing the dark, rough spots I get on my plain strings from my sweaty fingers. I typically take a piece of aluminum foil and slip it under the strings to cover the fingerboard and frets before using small pieces of Nevr-Dull wadding to shine up the A/E strings. Once I've got them smooth again, I wipe them clean with a paper towel, making sure I get all the residue off (it will turn the wadding and the paper towel black). It takes about 5 minutes to do, which is much quicker than replacing strings that still have some life in them!

I tried it on the wound strings once, and I'll never do it again. The black junk got in between the windings and would not come clean. And it really didn't do much to brighten up the phosphor-bronze anyway. So I won't touch the wound strings with Nevr-Dull, but just stick to the A/E strings.

[MandoJason]

excellent, thank you! i'll pick some up....i was wondering about not getting it on the fretboard...ahh, tinfoil!
thanks, take care.

[Tobin]

Heh, aluminum foil was just my quick solution. I have to be careful slipping it in there so I don't scratch the finish with the jagged edges from where I ripped it off the roll. But it's nice to be able to gently press it and form it around the neck area so it stays put while I'm polishing my strings. I tried using cling wrap, and that didn't work so well. But I'm sure anything impermeable would work as long as it can lay under the strings to protect the fretboard. Like maybe a thin piece of cardboard from commercial packaging, if it has that shiny film on it that will keep the mineral spirits from soaking through. Maybe the thin plastic cover from a thin report binder? Or a plastic sheet sleeve? If you're doing this on the road, it would be convenient to employ something that's reusable. Aluminum foil is getting expensive these days!

When using the Nevr-Dull wadding, I have to use very small pieces that I can get under the string and use my fingernail to clean the underside of the string (lots of rust happens there). Sometimes I will slip one end of the wadding under the string and grab both ends, pulling up and away from the fretboard so that it grabs the underside of the string and I can just work it up and down the length of the string. I have to keep turning it to a fresh area as it turns black from the rust/tarnish on the string. It will feel somewhat gritty as it does its work, but when it feels smooth, it's good to go.

[Ivan Kelsall]

That 'Nevr-Dull' sounds a lot like the Duraglit wadding i use to polish metal,i also use it as a buffing media to remove small surface scratches. It's made from mixing a polishing media (in the case of Duraglit i think it's Jeweller's Rouge) with white spirit. It might work,but personally,i'd never use it as the polishing media will seep in between the windings to an extent, & you'll never get it out.
For cleaning my strings,i use either WD-40 as i believe Adam Steffey also does,or 'Servisol' Switch Cleaner,or 3-In-One oil. None of those has any 'solid' matter in them. A quick wipe on / wipe off does it. 'Servisol' contains an anti-oxidant which helps prevent further corrosionas does 3-In-One oil. Using Nevr-Dull or Duraglit,not only are you removing any gunge from the strings,you're also removing the string material itself,albeit on a microscopic level,as you'd remove any corrosion from Silver,which is itself oxidization of the 'parent' material.
It's not for me to tell other folk what to use,but polishing media such as Nevr-Dull & Duraglit 'remove' material,not simply clean it,
Ivan
This is the 'Silver' polishing version of Duraglit.

[jshane]

.....The A/E strings are always the first to start sounding sour together..... it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

Yep. For me it is mostly the A strings, but E's are culprit, too.

After 3 weeks or so, I can tune the strings open (to a Peterson strobe) and all is fine if I stay within a few frets of the nut. At the 5th fret or so, things sound just plain bad to me. Octaves are horrible. Chords dont ring true. I can "sort of" get away with it if I play only very rapid spritely passages, but slower sweeter lines sound comical to my ear.

If I tune (with the tuner) to notes all fretted at the 5th (or 7th or anywhere, really-- as long as all are tuned at the same fret) things sound good within a fret or two of the one I used to tune.

Beats me what causes it--I dont think I fret particularly hard-- in fact I have worked to try and keep my fret-pressure constant regardless of the volume my right hand is generating. Sometimes I wonder if the effect isnt magnified by the relatively tight strings of the mandolin. My wife's octave doesnt exhibit this intonation problem until many months have passed--long after she would normally change strings for deadness.

[Nick Gellie]

We have deviated a bit discussing strings and issues with them. Thanks for your interesting posts.

I am just wondering if any of the Northfield Model M owners might want to add what strings works for them.

[thegeraldjones]

I've owned and early Northfield varnish A and played 15 or so other Northfields. I've played about 15 Pava's and just traded for a Player. My experience is that they are both great instruments but very different animals. Northfields are well built, play and sound great but are not on the same level of fit, finish and beauty of woods as the Pava.

The Northfields generally are a more aggressive sound that may be better suited for hard driving bluegrass than the Pava. I personally prefer the Pava's complexity of tone but I play little hard driing bluegrass on the mandolin.

This being said I love them both for different reasons. YMMV.

[pheffernan]

This being said I love them both for different reasons. YMMV.

How does the Pava compare to an Ellis in your experience?