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Thread: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

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    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    Red Henry (of The Murphy Method family of Murphy Henry) posted this a few weeks ago on his Facebook page.

    Red gives a very good demonstration of Monroe Style Mandolin by playing "Whiskey Before Breakfast". For those of you who think that Bill Monroe and this style is "sloppy", you're missing it! Lots going on here under the hood(staggered 16th notes, blues-like phrasings, etc), and the "drive" is in the right hand!.

    On a side note, Red is the owner of and playing Randy Wood #1, which is a Loar tribute mandolin that Bill Monroe said was the "closest" mandolin he ever heard compared to his July 9, 23' Loar in it's tonal qualities.

    We each have our preferences in mandolin playing style, and there is no good or bad, right or wrong! For me though, this says everything I desire to be about on the manlin'!

    1994 Gibson F5L made by Bruce Weber's team


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNick View Post
    Red Henry (of The Murphy Method family of Murphy Henry) posted this a few weeks ago on his Facebook page.

    Red gives a very good demonstration of Monroe Style Mandolin by playing "Whiskey Before Breakfast". For those of you who think that Bill Monroe and this style is "sloppy", you're missing it! Lots going on here under the hood(staggered 16th notes, blues-like phrasings, etc), and the "drive" is in the right hand!.

    We each have our preferences in mandolin playing style, and there is no good or bad, right or wrong! For me though, this says everything I desire to be about on the manlin'!
    I DO have my own preferences in mandolin playing style, and it is not for "sloppy" heavy-handed playing with static dynamic phrasing. So I'm not "missing it", I just don't like it.

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    Red,

    When are you or your son Chris going to do another Monroe Style mandolin instructional DVD for Murphy Method? We need a follow-up DVD of other Monroe tunes; a volume 2 to Chris's previous DVD. Thanks.

    RB250

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    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    RB250,

    I don't know if Red checks this board, I posted the video.

    I'll pass on your question to Chris though!
    1994 Gibson F5L made by Bruce Weber's team


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    Red is great. Used to see Murphy & Co. in S. Georgia and Florida back when I was just starting on the mandolin. He was the first guy I saw who really used his little finger a lot (of course, I hadn't seen many yet in 1979ish!) and watching him up close really got me thinking about how to play in Bb, B, etc. I was too shy to talk to Red back then, but we were studying you! Thanks Red!

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    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    I DO have my own preferences in mandolin playing style, and it is not for "sloppy" heavy-handed playing with static dynamic phrasing. So I'm not "missing it", I just don't like it.
    Ditto.
    Bill
    IM(NS)HO

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    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    Quote Originally Posted by David L View Post
    I DO have my own preferences in mandolin playing style, and it is not for "sloppy" heavy-handed playing with static dynamic phrasing. So I'm not "missing it", I just don't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by billhay4 View Post
    Ditto.
    Bill
    OK,

    I'm having a hard time trying to understand why this kind of response is "constructive" to the discussion.
    Monroe Style Mandolin is a style that is accepted in mandolin circles, has many respected practitioners, and has it's own instructional camp that is promoted btw on this forum (The Mandolin Cafe)

    If you as a mandolinist, have a legitmate complaint about the style then I believe it would be better served to document objectively your criticisms with corrections given and the whole process archived on video with you as the instructor educating the rest of us. So if you're prepared to offer up something like that to Mike Compton who is the foremost exponent and teacher of the style, then after you report back his answers to your video critique, feel free to share with the rest of us on this forum. If your complaint is with Red Henry's interpretation of the style, then again what purpose is there in bashing another man's playing?

    I don't see how it serves any positive purpose to just come in and bash for the purpose of airing your own personal likes/dislikes. I played classical trumpet for 11 years, played in community orchestras, studied with the retired 2nd trumpeter of the Philadelphia Orchestra , so I'm pretty versed in classical music. I generally find it and technically virtuostic classical technique on any instrument, including mandolin, not to my taste; yet I don't go on the Classical threads bashing classical mandolin because I "don't get it". I acknowledge that there's a lot "to get" in the genre, but it's just not me. My preference however doesn't give me license to bash it, at least not if I want to project myself as a mature person.

    Post your "instructional" video of your own detailed corrections to Monroe style, after you've first taken it up with Mike Compton. I know Mike and I'll be awaiting your interaction with him. Otherwise, I'm certainly not interested in your own negative musings. Bring on the video and show us how it's done (Monroe Style), or please move on.
    1994 Gibson F5L made by Bruce Weber's team


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

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    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    I believe DavidL stated it succinctly, and I agree with him. However, I accept your criticism and will say no more about this.
    Bill
    IM(NS)HO

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNick View Post
    OK,

    I'm having a hard time trying to understand why this kind of response is "constructive" to the discussion.
    Monroe Style Mandolin is a style that is accepted in mandolin circles, has many respected practitioners, and has it's own instructional camp that is promoted btw on this forum (The Mandolin Cafe)
    My post was a direct response to you saying, "For those of you who think that Bill Monroe and this style is "sloppy", you're missing it!" This was directed to those of us that DO think that. Your comment implies that your opinion is the only one that counts, because we obviously are ignorant and "missing" something. I never said that I wanted to "correct" Monroe style playing. I didn't even say that it is bad. I just responded to your saying that I don't understand it. Disagreeing with you is NOT "bashing" a style.

    In your last paragraph you say,"We each have our preferences in mandolin playing style, and there is no good or bad, right or wrong! For me though, this says everything I desire to be about on the manlin'!" Monroe style is NOT everything I desire to be. You stated your preference, and I stated mine.

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    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    But you had to come in and state that, because we need to hear that right?

    Don't respond to a forum post if you disagree, what's the point in pointing out that you're different from me, and in a negative fashion?

    So if I do think that a majority of classical performance is virtuostic, soul-less scale and arpeggio chasing, do I need to go on the Classical forum and announce my contrarianism there?
    1994 Gibson F5L made by Bruce Weber's team


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    (sigh)
    Can we get back to listening to Red Henry. I'm a fan of this guy for his experiments on one-piece bridges for mandolins. I was kinda hoping to hear and see one of those in action. How old is this video?? Red's been into one-piece bridge experiments for quite some time. His site kinda merges with the "Murphy Method" site. So, for me this is all kinda historic and wowee.

    I can relate to the idea of heavy handed because I have done some heavy handed playing. Likely not like this; but just blasting - it's nice to know how powerful a mando can be.

    I saw Bill Monroe many moons ago w The BGBoys in '77 at Carlyle ON. My first bluegrass festival. Got my ears burned. Got this picture in my head of him on stage, pretty close, and just doing it. I was dancing. It was quite impressive. The experience just comes back as a feeling w goosebumps. It was serious, and they weren't letting up for nothing. Hard core bluegrass. And me a lil noob.

    My utube is acting up. Just tried to fix that. Not sure; but gonna try it again.

    Thanx much for posting this. If I can't watch, I'll get it on my friends pooter later.

    Peace.............

    = The Loar, LM700VS c.2013 = "The Brat"
    = G. Puglisi, "Roma" c.1907 = "Patentato" - rare archBack, canted top, oval
    = Harmony, Monterrey c.1969 = collapsed ply - parts, testing, training, firewood.


    "The intellect is a boring load of crawp. Aye. Next wee chune".

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNick View Post
    Post your "instructional" video of your own detailed corrections to Monroe style, after you've first taken it up with Mike Compton. I know Mike and I'll be awaiting your interaction with him. Otherwise, I'm certainly not interested in your own negative musings. Bring on the video and show us how it's done (Monroe Style), or please move on.
    I don't have a dog in this fight, especially since I'm just a Blues and Celtic music player and don't play Bluegrass. But I think it's worth pointing out that this approach to argument -- which in jazz circles is sometimes known as "meet me on the bandstand," isn't a good way to go. As someone once said, long ago...

    "You may abuse a tragedy, though you cannot write one. You may scold a carpenter who has made you a bad table, though you cannot make a table. It is not your trade to make tables. ~ Samuel Johnson"

    There is a lot to say about this particular approach to mandolin, but it doesn't have anything to do with whether a poster can "show how it's done." That road just leads to posturing and flames, in my experience. We can discuss a style of playing without demanding credentials.

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    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    foldedpath,

    I get ya, but I don't have much use for armchair quarterbacks...
    1994 Gibson F5L made by Bruce Weber's team


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    MysTik Pickn,

    The video is a couple of weeks old...enjoy!
    1994 Gibson F5L made by Bruce Weber's team


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    It's a slippery slope when it comes to personal preference. The urge is to say "This is good, this is great" when we find something that tickles our fancy. As mandolin pickers, each of us has our preferences. We so want to affirm our thing. Trouble is, your thing may not be my thing. I gave the original post a like, not so much because Red's style is my thing, but because it's DataNick's thing and he is one of the passionate posters on here. He felt strongly enough about that clip to share. That's cool. Advocates for Thile, Drew Emmitt, Dawg, etc. - the same.

    I remember an interview with John Duffey, where he talked about his father sitting him down and playing Caruso records for him, saying "Now, here is a singer!" with the implied idea of "Unlike what you do." JD said something along the lines of "It wasn't my bag, but I appreciated it." As with parenting, it's tricky to force what you like/want onto someone else and expect them to feel the same.

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    Quote Originally Posted by DataNick View Post

    Don't respond to a forum post if you disagree
    Sorry buddy, but that ain't right. We all live in the monkeyhouse

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanN View Post
    Sorry buddy, but that ain't right. We all live in the monkeyhouse
    I agree with this post. There are a lot of folks on forums (This one for sure) that feel when you disagree you are trolling or something. I for one treat boards like as if I was in a room with folks having a conversation and I say on here what I would say in person. With that said.... I think that folks who don't like Bills style are stupid.

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanN View Post
    Sorry buddy, but that ain't right. We all live in the monkeyhouse
    Even as a stupid person, I agree with this. We not only all live in the monkeyhouse, we let ourselves in.

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    OK Alan I accept your "corrections"...valid points made and I stand corrected.

    This is hypothetical and I do like classical music:
    I have one question, is it acceptable behavior on my part, to look thru all the posts in the "Classical Music" forum to jump in and state that I disagree with so and so's take or it's not that I "don't get" classical technique or this guy's approach to this piece or that because in my opinion classical technique on the whole is empty and devoid of feeling with the emphasis on virtuosity which bores me. So whatever discussion taking place that extols the virtue of this person's playing versus another, etc from my pespective has no value or merit to me because I don't like the style. If that's my mindset going in, why walk thru that room and start something is my point!

    I mean the subject that irks a lot of folks and some of the responders is in the subject line of the post "Monroe Style Manlin". If I've got feelings of antipathy with a particular subject, why even bother to come in and be negative. Just because I can respond to something negatively doesn't mean I have to. I mean it's in the thread title for cryin out loud!
    Last edited by DataNick; Apr-18-2015 at 9:39am. Reason: clarification
    1994 Gibson F5L made by Bruce Weber's team


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    It surely is a fine line, between gently admonishing and flogging away. My point is not to correct you, DN, just to see both sides of the bluechip pick.
    Am reminded of a childhood verse:

    'Twixt the optimist and the pessimist
    The difference is the droll
    While the optimist sees a doughnut
    The pessimist sees a hole

    And to perhaps further wrench this one up, I passed that Red video onto a well-recorded and talented mandolin picker. His take on it?

    "That ain't Monroe style"

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    Registered User Pete Summers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'


    I mean the subject that irks a lot of folks and some of the responders is in the subject line of the post "Monroe Style Manlin". If I've got feelings of antipathy with a particular subject, why even bother to come in and be negative. Just because I can respond to something negatively doesn't mean I have to. I mean it's in the thread title for cryin out loud!
    Not to put too fine a point on it, I think what David L. was responding to is the implication that anyone who doesn't like this particular style of mandolin playing is stupid and just "doesn't get it." That's pretty condescending and worded in a way likely to provoke a response -- as is the suggestion that posters shouldn't reply to a thread unless they have only positive comments to make. This is a forum and anything anyone says may provoke a response, positive or negative. If that's censored, what is the point in having a forum?

    As for the mandolin playing in the video, it's certainly better than I can play that tune. But I've also heard a lot better versions.

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Summers View Post
    Not to put too fine a point on it, I think what David L. was responding to is the implication that anyone who doesn't like this particular style of mandolin playing is stupid and just "doesn't get it." That's pretty condescending and worded in a way likely to provoke a response -- as is the suggestion that posters shouldn't reply to a thread unless they have only positive comments to make. This is a forum and anything anyone says may provoke a response, positive or negative. If that's censored, what is the point in having a forum?

    As for the mandolin playing in the video, it's certainly better than I can play that tune. But I've also heard a lot better versions.
    Your're late to the party Pete, I acknowledge poor choice of vernacular with the "getting it", one however can rush to judgement that I was calling people out for being stupid, or give the benefit of the doubt. I didn't get Monroe Style at first! However I still don't think it's appropriate as principle to come in negative on someone else's thread. See my classical music example.
    Is that appropriate to you, would you do that?
    1994 Gibson F5L made by Bruce Weber's team


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    Alan,

    Good points, and I'm perfectly willing to be "corrected". Interesting observation from your friend...
    1994 Gibson F5L made by Bruce Weber's team


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

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    Mandolin Dreams Unlimited MysTiK PiKn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'


    = The Loar, LM700VS c.2013 = "The Brat"
    = G. Puglisi, "Roma" c.1907 = "Patentato" - rare archBack, canted top, oval
    = Harmony, Monterrey c.1969 = collapsed ply - parts, testing, training, firewood.


    "The intellect is a boring load of crawp. Aye. Next wee chune".

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    Default Re: Red Henry demonstrating Monroe Style Manlin'

    Yes, his remark was interesting. And this from a guy who hung at Bean Blossom during Monroe's time, played with him on stage. He was in Larry Sparks' band for a while, toured and recorded with Harley Allen and Mike Lilly. So, he knows his stuff.

    Ah, what does he know anyway....

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