Guitar to bouzouki conversion

[garryireland]

I know we all roll our eyes on this one, BUT. The question i have has not really been covered. I just got a lovely Takamine Jasmine guitar, on sale for literally €100. Ive spdant ages trying to find the right shape and this is it. Mini jumbo with a cutaway for capoing up thr neck. Question
On YouTube theres a guy converted a mini Taylor using a mandolin tailpiece. I'm hoping to do the same. Im not interested in slimming the neck or anything. A luthier friend will do the work if necessary but id prefer myself. So has anybody played a gbom or zouk like this? I see Nikos had a similar design in the classifieds a while back

[PseudoCelt]

Sounds like an interesting project. I haven't played one like that, but I'd be interested to know how well it works.

On the Apollonio instruments with a tailpiece, the strings run under a bar attached to the back of the bridge. There's a good photo in the gallery on Apollonio's website. It wouldn't be difficult to add this to an existing bridge on your guitar and it should help to keep the strings in place.

Andy Irvine played a Takamine bouzouki conversion for a while, so you'll be in good company, although his didn't have a tailpiece. It didn't look like the neck was slimmed down much, if at all.

Patrick

[garryireland]

Whststhe purpose of the bar? I never knew Andy played one. I swear im not copying!
Anybody got experience of tbis type of set up?

[garryireland]

Whststhe purpose of the bar? I never knew Andy played one. I swear im not copying!
Anybody got experience of tbis type of set up?

[Pete Braccio]

The purpose of the bar on the Apollonio's is to exert string tension on the bridge saddle. If you just have a pin type bridge and add tailpiece at the end of the guitar, the break angle over the bridge is not enough to give you the downward force that you need to drive the top. Adding the bar where the bridge pins usually are (and then looping the strings under the bar and on to the tailpiece) gives you this.

Pete

[garryireland]

The purpose of the bar on the Apollonio's is to exert string tension on the bridge saddle. If you just have a pin type bridge and add tailpiece at the end of the guitar, the break angle over the bridge is not enough to give you the downward force that you need to drive the top. Adding the bar where the bridge pins usually are (and then looping the strings under the bar and on to the tailpiece) gives you this.

Pete

I assumed that. So how does it work if i dont use that bar. Like a regular zouk doesn't have it

[Bernie Daniel]

The purpose of the bar on the Apollonio's is to exert string tension on the bridge saddle. If you just have a pin type bridge and add tailpiece at the end of the guitar, the break angle over the bridge is not enough to give you the downward force that you need to drive the top. Adding the bar where the bridge pins usually are (and then looping the strings under the bar and on to the tailpiece) gives you this.

Pete

Pete are you guys taking about this pic? Isn't that bar just to kill sympathetic vibrations? I do the same thing on my mandocellos.

[PseudoCelt]

Bernie, you may be right. In the close-up photos I've found of Apollonio bridges it looks like the strings change angle slightly as they run under the bar. That suggested to me that the bar was fixed to the bridge and I assumed it was there to hold the strings down on the bridge saddle, but maybe not.

Even if the bar is there to hold down the strings, it may well work fine without it. I'd probably try it first without and add it later if I felt it necessary.

Patrick

[bratsche]

Here is a link to my Baby Taylor OM conversion project. I used a tailpiece with the existing bridge, simply covered up the pin holes, and it worked out pretty decently.

bratsche

[garryireland]

Here is a link to my Baby Taylor OM conversion project. I used a tailpiece with the existing bridge, simply covered up the pin holes, and it worked out pretty decently.

bratsche

Thanks for the pic snd comments guys

[Pete Braccio]

Pete are you guys taking about this pic? Isn't that bar just to kill sympathetic vibrations? I do the same thing on my mandocellos.

Hey Bernie, Your bridge is about an 1 3/4 tall. You've got a nice break angle in the strings over it to provide a downward force upon the top. The Apollonio's bridge height is about half of yours. That bar looks to be to be screwed to the bridge to provide the necessary break angle over the top of the bridge to provide a downward force on the top.

Looking at the sketch below, if you think of the triangles as the bridges, the rectangles as the tailpieces, and the red lines as the strings, you can see the basic layout of tail bridge, short bridge, and short bridge with a bar. Then, for the little triages for each of these, you have red being the actual tension on the sting, the light blue is the horizontal component of that force, and the dark blue is the vertical component. The vertical component is what drives the top. In the middle drawing, you don't have much, so you need to take it by adding the bar in the third drawing.

At least, that's how I see it.

[Pete Braccio]

Actually, as I thinking about it more, drawing three would turn the instrument more into something like a pinned bridge. That would mean that the energy is transferred by the bridge rotating towards and away from the neck rather than up and down.

[Bernie Daniel]

Hey Bernie, Your bridge is about an 1 3/4 tall. You've got a nice break angle in the strings over it to provide a downward force upon the top. The Apollonio's bridge height is about half of yours. That bar looks to be to be screwed to the bridge to provide the necessary break angle over the top of the bridge to provide a downward force on the top.

Looking at the sketch below, if you think of the triangles as the bridges, the rectangles as the tailpieces, and the red lines as the strings, you can see the basic layout of tail bridge, short bridge, and short bridge with a bar. Then, for the little triages for each of these, you have red being the actual tension on the sting, the light blue is the horizontal component of that force, and the dark blue is the vertical component. The vertical component is what drives the top. In the middle drawing, you don't have much, so you need to take it by adding the bar in the third drawing.

At least, that's how I see it.

Very interesting stuff. I can see what you are getting at and it might just make good sense.

[derbex]

Some bowlback mandolins have a bar like this, my de Meglios does, and my Ceccerhini has a set of pins that do the same thing. As I understand it, it is as Pete says, to increase down force and thus volume.

[garryireland]

Some bowlback mandolins have a bar like this, my de Meglios does, and my Ceccerhini has a set of pins that do the same thing. As I understand it, it is as Pete says, to increase down force and thus volume.

On the mini Taylor conversion theres no bar used. Im just wondering the easiest way to do this. Im concerned if i drill extra pins that i end up with a real guitar sound, which is only half what im aiming for. So, do i use a higher bridge? That will obviously raise the strings height

[Rob Zamites]

On the mini Taylor conversion theres no bar used. Im just wondering the easiest way to do this. Im concerned if i drill extra pins that i end up with a real guitar sound, which is only half what im aiming for. So, do i use a higher bridge? That will obviously raise the strings height

Or a taller saddle.

[garryireland]

Or a taller saddle.

Hi Rob. I wonder could ypu ask Nikos about the bridge bar since he is building you a cbom?

[Rob Zamites]

Hi Rob. I wonder could ypu ask Nikos about the bridge bar since he is building you a cbom?

What specific question?

[garryireland]

What specific question?

The function of the bar and is it necessary or just a feature he prefers to use

[Rob Zamites]

The function of the bar and is it necessary or just a feature he prefers to use

It isn't always necessary I've found....on octave mandos & shoter scale citterns it doesn't seem to make a huge diference, but you can still hear it. Depends on the after-lengths of the strings and the angle. Especially with 12 stringers it's needed as the pull of the strings is almost a straight line from nut to tailpiece. This is to take downward pressure off the top allowing for lighter and more responsive bracing.
I should go to mando cafe myself. Is there a thread I can look up?

We might be blessed with a visit from St. Nikos himself!

[allenhopkins]

Just bought an Apollonio 12-string guitar (used), built in 2001 with a standard pin bridge. My friend Dave had Nikos Apollonio build him a 12-string last year, with tailpiece, floating bridge. The bar on the rear of the bridge is definitely to keep the strings in their slots while dealing with the small break angle of strings over the bridge -- providing additional downward pressure on the strings.

Dave says he loves the huge sound of the guitar, as do I enjoy the sound of mine. He does say that threading the strings through tailpiece holes and then the additional bar on the bridge, makes restringing his more of a chore than restringing mine, with its standard pin bridge.

[garryireland]

Just bought an Apollonio 12-string guitar (used), built in 2001 with a standard pin bridge. My friend Dave had Nikos Apollonio build him a 12-string last year, with tailpiece, floating bridge. The bar on the rear of the bridge is definitely to keep the strings in their slots while dealing with the small break angle of strings over the bridge -- providing additional downward pressure on the strings.

Dave says he loves the huge sound of the guitar, as do I enjoy the sound of mine. He does say that threading the strings through tailpiece holes and then the additional bar on the bridge, makes restringing his more of a chore than restringing mine, with its standard pin bridge.

So i should just use the bridge pins and forget the tailpiece? I was thinking of using a trapeze. I see aot of old guitars with thatcset up

[mandobassman]

I did a conversion of a small body guitar to a OM a few years ago. I just left the existing guitar bridge and installed a standard 2-piece tailpiece on the end and ran the strings over the existing bridge. It is not the loudest OM around but the tone is very sweet and I love the sound. I would go with the easiest route first. You can always change it later. I've attached a few pictures of my GBOM. It may not be the prettiest work around, but it sounds surprisingly nice.

[garryireland]

I did a conversion of a small body guitar to a OM a few years ago. I just left the existing guitar bridge and installed a standard 2-piece tailpiece on the end and ran the strings over the existing bridge. It is not the loudest OM around but the tone is very sweet and I love the sound. I would go with the easiest route first. You can always change it later. I've attached a few pictures of my GBOM. It may not be the prettiest work around, but it sounds surprisingly nice.

Thats great thanks for the pics. Im thinking of using a tailpiece like Sobell so that shoyld bring the strings close to the bidge thus avoiding the problem of pressure on the strings

[multidon]

Larry, that looks like a classical. Correct? Conventional wisdom says the bracing will not take the tension of the steel strings. But maybe the lessened downward pressure caused by the new tailpiece is a good thing in this case.