Purely cosmetic?.......Surely not

[GKWilson]

Steffey at a festival workshop last Summer said he really liked playing A models.
Yet he was playing an Ellis F that day.
He did mention he had a Northfield that was in the works being made to his spec's.
He wouldn't embellish on this. But it got me thinking.
Has anyone seen him since the new Northfield A's came out?
Gary

[Stainless]

Attended a workshop with Adam this past weekend. This was the first weekend of playing since his elbow surgery. Up until two weeks ago he had not played in two months. The surgery was successful and he was at 90% and will shortly be at 100.

He was playing a borrowed Dude (an F). The reason was that it has a a narrow neck. Adam said that he will shortly return to his Northfield Big Mon. He stated that it feels the best for him. By the way the Dude was very good and Adam was exceptional (as usual).

A couple of other things Adam uses. Strings. D'Addario Exp, the Chris Thile ones. Adam was using sculped Plectra picks. He likes them because the don't slip. He stated that he has used Blue Chip foe years (and still does at times) but he stated that in hot weather they sometimes slip too much. The pick he uses is the pointed one. He prefers it because it gives him better note separation.

[karlmando]

What about the points? I like the comfort of the points on an F body, as they act as little anchors for me. A's tend to be a little more slippery on my lap perhaps. I'd be just as happy with a Weber 3 point Bighorn I figure, or some other rare 3 pointer, just never had the opportunity (and for me, I'd probably prefer the 'unique look' of those) Scrolls are handsome too though, no doubt.

[zedmando]

Which one to buy is all in the ears, eyes and pocket book of the player.

This is true for pretty much almost any musical instrument--if not all of them.

And with ones like a mandolin--in the hands as well--how a mandolin feels to hold is important to me.

[Tom Coletti]

Also, the cutaway makes for easier access to the higher frets. I can work around it on my 'A' models, but I play up there often enough to find it an advantage.

That's not from a "cutaway." In fact, there isn't a cutaway. F's and A's have basically the same contour to the treble side--other than a couple of points--but on an F5, the 15-fret neck gives more access to higher positions than a 12-fret neck on a Gibson A. The old F4s also have 12-fret necks, so there should be no noticeable difference between an A4 or an F4 in the higher frets.

--Tom

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

I disagree with the premise that there are no general differences between A's and F's but rather think one isn't better than the other. I also think there are huge differences in wood that can overcome what I view as the general tonal differences in A's and F's. sometimes. My personal experience is that A models tend to have a rounder sound compared to F models with a less percussive chop but better strumming chords. I have found 2 points to be in the middle somewhere. I believe it is because the points and scroll somehow affect the top (maybe stiffness/resonance) and the sound chamber. I have no data to back this up and have just come up with a reason that fits my anecdotal experience. Completely unscientific I admit and very possibly wrong as well. Nonetheless, Its my view on the subject. And I like A models as well as F models... and 2 points.

[Jim Hudson]

Our instruments are our tools for the purpose of making music. The sonic characteristics, then, should be paramount, but everyones ear and sonic tastes differ. Human ego gets involved and our instruments also become fashion statements, and scrolls look nice to some. Then throw in a dash of respect for tradition and the soup becomes thicker. Then look at Mando's like Carlos Everett (everettguitars.com) is building where the area normally occupied by the scroll becomes an open chamber and, presumably, sonically important (and not as expensive to build). Hmmmmmm. I think I'll just buy what I like and can afford.

[JeffD]

[QUOTE]

I also think there are huge differences in wood that can overcome what I view as the general tonal differences in A's and F's..

I think that is very true. The wood, and other luthiery issues make bigger differences than the body shape IMO.

My personal experience is that A models tend to have a rounder sound compared to F models with a less percussive chop but better strumming chords. .

The specific difference you are describing I find, exactly, when comparing ff holes and oval holes. Absolutely. But I don't hear it, consistently, when comparing two oval holes, say, one F and one A, - or comparing two ff hole instruments, one A and one F.

[JeffD]

Our instruments are our tools for the purpose of making music. The sonic characteristics, then, should be paramount, but everyones ear and sonic tastes differ. Human ego gets involved and our instruments also become fashion statements, and scrolls look nice to some. Then throw in a dash of respect for tradition and the soup becomes thicker......

I have changed my thinking about this just tools for making music thing. I think its more true for professionals. But, like you say, there is ego, and tradition, and fashion, not to mention aesthetics, and sentiment, and passion. And why not? We don't live in the world of things, we live in the world of the significance of those things. What the objects mean to us.

I think I'll just buy what I like and can afford.

Exactly. And no need to explain it to anyone.

[Mandoplumb]

There are so many factors that are involved that makes this mandolin different from another. When I started playing most A's did not have an elevated fingerboard I think that makes more difference than points and scrolls. I really think that is why most first generation bluegrass used F5's. Yes I know Red Rector and I think Buss Bugsby and a few others, at one point John Duffy played a F2 but that was out of necessisty the F5 was still the one sought after. But there are more good mandolins of all types being made now than at any time in my 60+ years

[Mark Wilson]

If A's were the same price as F's then I expect there wouldn't be many to chose from

The main reason I play an A is there is not a F for the same cost that I'm drawn to

Folks will say they prefer the look of an A over an F but I'm not convinced.

I love the look of my A but looks wise there thing is more elegant than a scroll.

[foldedpath]

Hey, at least we have a choice, since mandolin is a relatively recent instrument and it still exists in many different forms.

Pity the poor fiddlers. Their aesthetic issues were settled centuries ago, with no options. Except for a few electric instruments out on the fringe, there is *no* market for a fiddle that doesn't have a scroll at the end. Non-functional aesthetics won that particular battle, a long time ago.

So I never feel the need to justify the scroll on my mandolin. If it's good enough for fiddlers to prefer that look, then who am I to argue?

[Jeff Mando]

I think of it as a Ford vs Chevy type of discussion.....I guess a 2-point might be a Mopar?

Or Les Paul vs Strat vs Telecaster.

[Ellen T]

If A's were the same price as F's then I expect there wouldn't be many to chose from

The main reason I play an A is there is not a F for the same cost that I'm drawn to

Folks will say they prefer the look of an A over an F but I'm not convinced.

I love the look of my A but looks wise there thing is more elegant than a scroll.

I play an A and I actually don't care for the way the Fs look. I prefer clean lines and a symmetrical shape. Isn't it great that there are plenty of each available from which we can choose our favorite?

[roysboy]

Steffey at a festival workshop last Summer said he really liked playing A models.
Yet he was playing an Ellis F that day.
He did mention he had a Northfield that was in the works being made to his spec's.
He wouldn't embellish on this. But it got me thinking.
Has anyone seen him since the new Northfield A's came out?
Gary

I caught the Boxcars at a festival last summer and Adam played an " A" the whole weekend ....not sure of the model/brand .

[Emmett Marshall]

For me it's about "art." I love the "look" of a nice "F" style. I think they are beautiful. It inspires me. I also think "A" styles are nice, just not my preference, and I have no explanation for that. I also buy paintings and statues and stare at them. I just got a nice statue of an angel playing a bowl back - it's made from Kentucky coal. It's all art. Some like Rembrandt, some prefer Picasso, and some like both.

[zedmando]

Hey, at least we have a choice

Which is the cool thing.
lots of choices for me in Mandolins, as well as my other instruments--guitars & basses--although most of them I don't own...
The choices are out there.

[Steve L]

[QUOTE=Mark Wilson;1385070]


"Folks will say they prefer the look of an A over an F but I'm not convinced."



I simply don't like the look of F style mandolins. Too fussy.

[bruce.b]

[QUOTE=Steve L;1385156]

"Folks will say they prefer the look of an A over an F but I'm not convinced."



I simply don't like the look of F style mandolins. Too fussy.

Me too. I prefer the look of A styles. Two points can be nice, but I'd never consider an F style even if it was the least expensive. What I don't understand is how anyone could question other people's aesthetic choices. Not convinced that people prefer A styles over F styles? That is mind boggling silly.

[BadLiver]

So here's a question......

If F style mandolin’s are purely cosmetic and have a below par sound quality compared to A's, as a lot of people continually allude to on these forums, then why do many of the pro players (Thile, Hull, Steffey, Grisman off the top of my head) predominantly play F mandolins?

I find it strange that many people post on here pretty much apologising for wanting one.

I don't think they sound any different in any way. They are a traditional bluegrass solution. I prefer an A-style because it is more austere looking but let's face it, there are way more Fs than As in traditional 'grass!! The F style is also less neck-heavy because of where the strap goes.

[sblock]

So I had this lovely F-style mandola, and the low C course on it just sounded awful. I mean, every time you struck it, it sounded with a dull 'thud.' So I took it in to my luthier, and he opined that the fancy F-scroll was absorbing some of the sound energy on the low side, robbing the bass strings of vibration. He told me it was a case of "The Dead C Scroll."

Gotcha!

[Tom Coletti]

I don't think they sound any different in any way. They are a traditional bluegrass solution. I prefer an A-style because it is more austere looking but let's face it, there are way more Fs than As in traditional 'grass!! The F style is also less neck-heavy because of where the strap goes.

Actually, I usually hear the opposite. F's are often considered more neck-heavy, due to the added mass on the headstock. And by putting the strap on the scroll, it creates a fulcrum that can occasionally tip towards the neck end.

--Tom

[zedmando]

[QUOTE=Steve L;1385156]

"Folks will say they prefer the look of an A over an F but I'm not convinced."



I simply don't like the look of F style mandolins. Too fussy.

I like them both--so I went with a solidbody mandolin shaped like a little Firebird.