The Devil and The Gibson Loar

[DataNick]

Scenario for your consideration:

The Devil (Satan or other evil tempter of your choosing) offers that you could have the "best" sounding and playing Loar to your ears on the condition that you could never sell it. If you give in to the temptation to sell, he owns your soul.

Would you accept knowing that the Loar will be yours and only yours for a lifetime and can't be sold/exchanged for anything else or would you refuse?

What do you gain? The lifetime experiences of personally owning, playing a Loar without ever having paid money for it.

I would accept the condition...would you?

[sblock]

I fail to see any downside, so I don't understand the dilemma posed here. If you agree, you get to possess and play a truly great instrument. What fun! And because there is no such thing as a soul, or the Devil for that matter, you give up nothing whatsoever. If you disagree, you gain nothing. There is no ethical dilemma, either, except perhaps that you are perhaps depriving another (and possibly better) player of the opportunity to own this fine mandolin.

[LongBlackVeil]

I fail to see any downside, so I don't understand the dilemma posed here. If you agree, you get to possess and play a truly great instrument. What fun! And because there is no such thing as a soul, or the Devil for that matter, you give up nothing whatsoever. If you disagree, you gain nothing. There is no ethical dilemma, either, except perhaps that you are perhaps depriving another (and possibly better) player of the opportunity to own this fine mandolin.

but wouldnt you have to accept, by obvious logic, that if you just made a deal with the devil, and you actually received what you dealt for, that he does exist?

Id say nah, aint nothin no part of nothing better than my ellis. If he wants to consider trading his soul for my ellis, then i might consider

[9lbShellhamer]

There's no downside! Yes! Sign me up!

Now to venture further...

No one could ever hear you play the Loar and you couldn't tell anyone about it???

Oh...wait...I suppose the downside was my soul being eternally damned.

Yep. I'll take the Loar, and play it for all for hear. If he's listening he know's where to find me.




Well now...I've been outsmarted by the above post who mentioned if the deal was made, the devil really does exist and I'd suffer for eternity...I take back my offer. I am PERFECTLY happy with my Collings MT2 and my KY KM950

[DataNick]

I fail to see any downside, so I don't understand the dilemma posed here. If you agree, you get to possess and play a truly great instrument. What fun! And because there is no such thing as a soul, or the Devil for that matter, you give up nothing whatsoever. If you disagree, you gain nothing. There is no ethical dilemma, either, except perhaps that you are perhaps depriving another (and possibly better) player of the opportunity to own this fine mandolin.

Well you have to enter the scenario on it's conditions, no such thing as a soul? You obviously never experienced James Brown live...LOL! Think of the devil as "Feklar" (Klingon demon god)...anyway the temtpation to sell, the temptation to not be content with what one has; potentially downside to me there; but to each his own.

Question though, why does a "better" player have to necessarily own fine art? Supposedly there are some "collectors" who really don't play much at all that own Loars; more power to them I say.
Do you have to be a race car driver to own and enjoy a Ferrari?

[DataNick]

Now to venture further...

No one could ever hear you play the Loar and you couldn't tell anyone about it???

Now that's the stuff of Twilight Zone...LOL!

BTW: you can find him down at the crossroads...

[sblock]

but wouldnt you have to accept, by obvious logic, that if you just made a deal with the devil, and you actually received what you dealt for, that he does exist?

Id say nah, aint nothin no part of nothing better than my ellis. If he wants to consider trading his soul for my ellis, then i might consider

But how would I know that the person who offered me the Loar is who he says (s)he is? Come to think of it, it's far more likely that if some stranger offered me a Loar for free, then the Loar would likely be stolen property, and the stranger would be someone looking to get rid of it, and fast. And the stranger would have to be some kind of a fruitcake to come up with that "I'm the Devil" story!

[DataNick]

But how would I know that the person who offered me the Loar is who he says (s)he is? Come to think of it, it's far more likely that if some stranger offered me a Loar for free, then the Loar would likely be stolen property, and the stranger would be someone looking to get rid of it, and fast. And the stranger would have to be some kind of a fruitcake to come up with that "I'm the Devil" story!

Maybe for your purposes, think of the scenario as a foundation that provides rare, incredible instruments to people of their choosing (like what some do with Strads), on the condition that they can never sell it, and upon death it goes back to the foundation. Would you accept a Loar under those conditions, or refuse it?

[OldSausage]

Well, but you have nothing to lose anyway, because there's no need to sell the Loar, since you got it for free. Of course anyone would say yes, unless they had a personal rule about not doing business with metaphysical beings whose reputation for evil is unparallelled.

I think you need to set it up better, with more at stake for the taker.

And how about the small print. I can't sell it, but can I drop it and make an insurance claim?

[OldSausage]

Maybe for your purposes, think of the scenario as a foundation that provides rare, incredible instruments to people of their choosing (like what some do with Strads), on the condition that they can never sell it, and upon death it goes back to the foundation. Would you accept a Loar under those conditions, or refuse it?

With that scenario, why would anyone say no? There's absolutely no downside.

[Terry Sebastian]

there is no such thing as a soul, or the Devil for that matter

I would, respectfully, disagree, but this isn't the forum for such arguments.

Personally, I would never make a "deal with the devil". You lose every time in that scenario, one way or another.

[Timbofood]

I get you Terry, I think I will stay out of this one. But, for the record, If somebody has a Loar that they want someone else to own, PM me, we can talk!

[DataNick]

With that scenario, why would anyone say no? There's absolutely no downside.

I've learned OS that some people will say no to anything; sometimes just to spite themselves.

Your point on set-up is well taken...

[DataNick]

...Personally, I would never make a "deal with the devil". You lose every time in that scenario, one way or another.

Some of us are gamblers to the end...LOL!

[Paul Hird]

No, I would not accept. There are plenty of other great sounding and playing mandolins out there. Now, if it were a 1963 split window fastback Stingray Corvette, hands down, done deal!

[DataNick]

To the Cafe and future respondants:

The "Devil" is meant to be a reference point that is easily identifiable, not an endorsement nor rejection of anyone's beliefs, or creed. It's a hypothetical scenario...

Carry on...

[Hadji36]

I also have to agree with Terry on this one. You NEVER deal with the Devil.

But for the sake of argument, let's play out this scenario...

You take the mandolin with the intention of never selling it. When you make the deal, you are married (one in the eyes of God...stay with me). Your wife decides to divorce you (since a divorce is not recognized by the church you and your ex are still considered one). The judge in your divorce trial awards your wife the Loar. She decides to sell it because you paid more attention to it than her. Since you are still one in the eyes of God, you have violated your agreement and your soul is doomed to an environment which is not conducive to the proper care and maintenance of a mandolin for all eternity.

That is just off the top of my head. I know it sounds pretty cynical, but, there are no free rides.

I do believe that most of us in the community would do the right thing if this wildly hypothetical situation would arise. If you have any doubts about that, just review how the young kid that recently found the Loar in the closet was advised by the Cafe members. It appeared that no one was trying to take advantage of him. That is what is so special about this community.

PS. I know DataNick meant no offense to anyone.

[Steve VandeWater]

I would, respectfully, disagree, but this isn't the forum for such arguments.

Personally, I would never make a "deal with the devil". You lose every time in that scenario, one way or another.

Never heard "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" by Charlie Daniels? Johnny won! But he only got a lousy golden fiddle, not a Loar.

[DataNick]

So Hadji36,

The moral of your story is don't accept if married...LOL!

No, I get it Bro!

I was just intrigued by several comments we get on the Cafe in re:turning a Loar into profit vs keeping it.

[9lbShellhamer]

Could I "give" someone the mandolin for FREE, on the condition they pay me $100k to shake my hand?

[Astro]

Well the devils in the details.

And its de tails dat always get me in trouble...

[Hadji36]

So Hadji36,

The moral of your story is don't accept if married...LOL!

No, I get it Bro!

I was just intrigued by several comments we get on the Cafe in re:turning a Loar into profit vs keeping it.

I know that your original post was "tongue in cheek" so that's what I figured the response should be.

[Michael Bridges]

+If the written contract says SPECIFICALLY that that Loar can't be SOLD, Maybe Grhn or Carter's will work me a n ice TRADE for, oh, say maybe a Gil, a top-line Ellis, and a few other drool-worthy mandos.

[sblock]

I would, respectfully, disagree, but this isn't the forum for such arguments.

Personally, I would never make a "deal with the devil". You lose every time in that scenario, one way or another.

OK, I'll play...

There are quite a few famous counter-examples in the literature of folks who are said to have made a "deal with the Devil," but then managed to get out of it in the end, soul intact. Perhaps the best-known is that of Faust, as told by Goethe. Another example is the American short story of "The Devil and Daniel Webster."

And what about in the movies? Consider the lead character in "Bedazzled." (1967, with a lousy remake from 2000) Or "Constantine" (2005)? Even "Hellboy" (2004) manages a bit of redemption, although this is less clear.

Nicolo Paganini is said to have made a deal with the devil for his legendary violin-playing abilities. And what about the story of blues guitarist Robert Johnson, who sold his soul at the crossroads? I guess we don't know how these folks made out in these deals, do we?

It is not a foregone conclusion that the Devil wins every time, even for most religious folks. I suppose due caution should be exercised when dealing with Mephistopheles and his ilk, nevertheless...

[SincereCorgi]

With that scenario, why would anyone say no? There's absolutely no downside.

Ah ha, but you've got to put strings on it! Wicked cackle, crackling flames, smell of sulfur, etc.

Wait, no, that's still a pretty good deal.