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Thread: Question Regarding Tablature

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    Default Question Regarding Tablature

    I'm a guitarist but a couple of days ago my dad gifted me a mandolin. I love it already and I think my guitar is gonna collect some dust for a while. But I have a question regarding the tabs I find online. A traditional piece has no specific way of being played, right? I've found 'Whiskey in the Jar' in different keys. I've decided to stick with C because it's where I'm comfortable playing. The tabs online seems pretty basic so do I just kind of tamper with them to make it appealing to my ears or is there a specific way to play these traditional pieces/jigs/etc.? I'm mainly interested in Celtic music because my family has a lot of Irish and we're pretty proud of it. (I apologize to all of you who are actually full-blooded Irish LOL) BTW, I understand that if I was having a jam session with a band that we would all have to agree on a key.

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    Default Re: Question Regarding Tablature

    Don't know about Celtic, but tradional fiddle tunes from Appalachain mountains can vary not only in keys, but in how A and B relate, in chord progression and even in melody. We used to say it just depends on which side of the ridge you were raised that determines how it's played.

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    Default Re: Question Regarding Tablature

    That's very interesting! It makes sense. I think I'm gonna love this instrument due to its variation compared to covering guitar parts in a song. Thanks for clearing that up for me Mandoplumb.

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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question Regarding Tablature

    In Irish traditional music there are a lot of tunes that get put together in sets and many share recurring themes and phrases. I've seen a good few examples where people get them mixed up, possibly due to zeroing in on a recognised phrase and assuming the rest of the tune 'must be' the one they know it from. It's really easily done and to be honest it's a long standing part of the tradition that people joke about not having a clue what the tunes they're playing are called. It's all fun and good for a laugh when you pitch up and call a tune as one thing and it's another and two other names are suggested as the real name. What matters is that you get to play the tunes you like the sound of and if it's a good tune people will know how it goes anyway so no one cares what you like to call it, except the academics and it's fun to get them arguing anyway.

    You also can mess about with where the 'lift' or swing is in a tune which can make it sound radically different. I would recommend learning them from records if you don't yet do the notation, but it'll be well worth getting started reading along with the dots now so it gradually just clicks for you. The reason for recommending the dots is because the old fiddle tune books were all done in standard notation so if you can learn from those you'll get the name with the tune that most people will know and vise versa.....not that the names really matter.
    Eoin



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    Default Re: Question Regarding Tablature

    Thanks for the response. When you say "dots", do you mean like on a staff? What you said makes sense about getting the names mixed up. I honestly don't know any Irish tunes by name. All I know is how they sound and that I like that sound! Could you recommend a good record that has a lot of Celtic mandolin playing? I usually just listen to the tunes on YouTube or Spotify by key search. Whenever I find a tab on a piece I almost never find it online except for maybe a couple of covered versions on YouTube.

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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question Regarding Tablature

    Yep by dots I mean the notation on the staff, it sounds less intimidating
    I tend to avoid learning Irish Traditional tunes from mandolin players and use fiddle or pipe players mainly. I always risk sounding like I'm insulting people if I explain why so I'll just say it's a matter of taste.
    There are some cracking examples from fiddle players such as Tommy Peoples or Kevin Burke who have produced really good albums with good sets to copy. They have the advantage of often playing without too much accompanying clutter so you can put them in slow-down software and they still keep the rhythm clear even at slow speed when learning.

    What I'll do when learning something that initially sounds complex is listen over and over to the recording that has inspired me to want to learn it then go to something like "Kerr's Merry Melodies" "Ryan's" "Petrie" or the "Kingston Collection" then read the notation along to it a few times, then have a go to see where I get stuck. I then do loads more listening and trying to iron out any wrinkles. After a bit the slow- downer software became unnecessary so the whole thing speeds up.

    The reason for initially sticking with the version I first liked is just wanting to emulate the magic that drew me to a tune in the first place. I often come across other versions of a tune played by people I really like, but their way of doing a tune would never have drawn me to the tune initially. An example from very recently would be listening to track 13 on Tommy Peoples' "Waiting For A Call" it's a Stathspey called George IV and his treatment of it just had me looping it over and over, with page 7 of Kerr's book 1 open and following along with the notation. So I set about learning it and listening to other versions, but was really struck how I'd let loas of other versions just pass by without being hooked. I hadn't even realised the tune was on the John Doherty CD "The Floating Bow" as he just lashes it out by comparison with Peoples' steady rhythmic flow. I don't think I'd have bothered if I hadn't heard the Tommy Peoples version first.
    Last edited by Beanzy; Feb-19-2015 at 7:15am.
    Eoin



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    Mindin' my own bizness BJ O'Day's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question Regarding Tablature

    Most of the Irish tunes I've been learning are in the key of G or D. I don't know enough tunes to say what the overall most common key is. I've been told it is often determined by an instrument in a jam that is built to a specific key like a concertina.

    BJ

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    Registered User Fred Keller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question Regarding Tablature

    With regard to Whiskey In The Jar, that piece is listed in different keys because it's a song. Songs need to be pitched wherever the vocalist is comfortable singing. Tunes, on the other hand, are most often accepted to be in a particular key. It's possible to play the Fisherman's Hornpipe in A or G (or wherever) but it's traditionally played in D and that's where most folks will have it. Irish music also often has sets: tunes that are traditionally played together one after the other. Often this was done for particular dances.

    With regard to tab vs standard notation, you've probably gotten the info you need above. It is definitely the case that tab carries less information than standard notation. Tab is less subtle with regard to note length, emphasis, attack than standard. Therefore, as was said above, listen to recordings or see if you want to learn notation
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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question Regarding Tablature

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanzy View Post
    I tend to avoid learning Irish Traditional tunes from mandolin players and use fiddle or pipe players mainly..
    Absolutely. Most of time.

    I have been doing this for a while. I started before mandolin was all that common in traditional Irish music, and learned mostly through fiddle and button box renditions.

    Even so, it was a very long time before I listened to a mandolinner play the music I was learning. Even now I tend to avoid it. I don't want to sound like anyone else, but I want to be inspired by everyone else - so the separation of learning the tune from another instrument gives that separation. What ever I do, the mandolinning will be mine.
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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question Regarding Tablature

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar247 View Post
    I'm a guitarist but a couple of days ago my dad gifted me a mandolin. I love it already and I think my guitar is gonna collect some dust for a while. But I have a question regarding the tabs I find online. A traditional piece has no specific way of being played, right? .
    Well kind of but not really. There are norms within each genre - ways to play, ways to decorate the tune, ways to improvise or not improvise, ways to do the support role with chords, or counter melody, or what keys things are in.

    There is freedom, within a structure. And exploring that structure has been one of the joys of my life.

    I would use the local jam session as your guide. What key do they tend to play a particular tune in. I am not saying they are always right, but likely the tradition is held by the hoard. And anyway, that is how the tradition got to me, not through study but through contact (infection) from the jam.

    There is an advantage to learning tunes in other keys though, so it is not a bad thing to learn it however you learn it.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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    Default Re: Question Regarding Tablature

    I encourage you to have a look at http://thesession.org/.

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    Default Re: Question Regarding Tablature

    Ok, I think I get what's being said. I'll run through the A, D, and G major scales. I have software to slow down a MP3. My local music is Cajun so I'm sure there are a few mandolinist, fiddlers, upright bassists, etc. I can observe. Anyway, thanks a lot for the responses! It's not as easy as it is learning on a guitar due to it being a lesser played instrument with people my age but I'm sure with good effort and practice it'll be a fun process.

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