Can you play a real song?! Ugh!

[catmandu2]

It's such a large consideration (and great thread) - how people transact with, convene and "commune" over music. F-d, Bertram, and Cecily mention important aspects in sharing music - as I'm sure others have as well. There are many functions and experiences of music - "entertaining" being but one. I make a ritual of giving my music to folks with alzheimer's and other disabilities, economically and socially disadvantaged, benefits, farmer's markets and what not - with non-typical instruments. Really, sharing music is non-typical, these days, in mechanized society. We can (and perhaps this may lay more along the lie of the OP) cherish the experience of the sound of the instrument, its natural voice, abstracted from popular convention (familiar song), on its own terms, if you will. Free improvisation - risky as it is - is often the most rewarding part of playing for others; crafting an aesthetic moment, with sound - with just an instrument between us. This doesn't necessarily require technical accomplishment - but has more to do with attitude and disposition, and a contemplative environment. Audience expectation (and demand) often interferes with this pursuit, but can be worked upon. Audience expectation for the familiar is often an expression of reluctance to engage, as well; consider that most folks are reluctant to engage, be challenged, open to new and different.. I think this is fundamental to the lay-person response to music - easily belittling or mocking, etc. A person approaches the player - with an openness, to some degree - to allow (a transaction, a feeling, a revealed emotion); this is risky business for the listener as well. There is a window of opportunity before the "closed" listener shuts it down - as if to say, "Here I am - move me." It's easy to see why many react with predictable and trite responses - to defend, to revert to invulnerability. Those who come open to receive are more rare (at a famer's market, say), as it implies that they must give as well - of their time, attention, graciousness, etc. Vulnerability is not something that many people typically seek or allow.

Performers have an advantage in that we are automatically bestowed attention, and have a means/tool to facilitate interaction. Many folks probably have an unrequited and deep-rooted desire, yearning to be engaged, provided for, ministered to, etc., but are protective. And at the same time - we are afforded, by the receptive, the most gracious sentiments, by those who value the humble means of convening through sound, and someone willing to provide. The really wonderful experiences are often eliciting these gracious responses., and openness, among those who came well-protected.

Music is powerful medicine

[stevedenver]

that's the tough part, the crafting thing.....on demand......

[catmandu2]

that's the tough part, the crafting thing.....on demand......

Yes! A musical instrument is full of magic, but becoming a musician to invoke its magic - takes study, devotion, craft, giving, rendering oneself vulnerable, etc.

There are different approaches. Something I've found very helpful is to master my own feelings, attitudes and orientations around music - so that I can assume a role as a provider and interpreter of experience, etc.

[stevedenver]

something I found helpful is to master the tune and lyrics so I don't forget after three beers on stage, and not wanting to kick the living S98T outta my banjo player, speaking of mastering feelings....

or the cute little blonde in the front row, that keeps screaming 'Wagon Wheel'............craftsmanship is not always there........just get 'er done, get paid, make sure my mando isn't walked off with and get home.

jes kidding with you...

[Nashville]

If I learn my songs from a fakebook, are the songs real?

[darylcrisp]

Melissa

check this guy out(he plays a Breedlove also). he offers up how to play some classic rock songs, and i think they sound good and look fun to learn-he has some other songs also.
so here you go, Sweet Home Alabama


and i've recently found this guy and find his offerings really fun-check around his website and you might find something to work on that you pull out for folks when you want:

[catmandu2]

something I found helpful is to master the tune and lyrics so I don't forget after three beers on stage, and not wanting to kick the living S98T outta my banjo player, speaking of mastering feelings....

or the cute little blonde in the front row, that keeps screaming 'Wagon Wheel'............craftsmanship is not always there........just get 'er done, get paid, make sure my mando isn't walked off with and get home.

I've done my share of that too - I worked for rate as a sideman in the bars and clubs for some years. As you point out - a completely different animal.

The point I wanted to make, if I can be succinct: there is a different craft - in letting it happen, allowing, sharing, exploring. But it's not without risk. And I find it's best to prepare for this type of musical process - if this is what one is after.

For those finding it sometimes difficult to "perform" for family and friends - there is good reason why: vulnerability is an uncomfortable feeling, if one is unprepared, etc. It may help to organize your thoughts - on why we do it, what it means to us, what are OUR expectations, and so forth. It may seem a simple thing - to play music for others - but there are many dynamics about..

[chuck3]

The point I wanted to make, if I can be succinct: there is a different craft - in letting it happen, allowing, sharing, exploring. But it's not without risk. And I find it's best to prepare for this type of musical process - if this is what one is after.

Well said. This made my think of my gig on mandolin last weekend. The group is a trio with female lead singer who sings mainly her originals, guitar player and me on mando. Because of the weather last weekend, the lead singer couldn't make it to the gig (she lives quite a ways away). Also because of the weather, the crowd was, well, not a crowd, to start with. The guitar player and I debated whether to go on and the owners would not have been angry if we didn't. We decided to just sit at the bar and play with no amplification, and we kind of traded songs. I took the opportunity to sing lead on a number of songs I like (Beatles, Stones, folk type stuff) even though I'm not a "lead" singer (although I do sing harmony/backup). I also used the chance to do "Salt Creek" as a solo instrumental which was kind of going out on a limb for me in terms of my mando skills. The guitarist sang his stuff - he's not really a lead singer either - and I accompanied him.

People started wandering in and they really dug the vibe - it was obviously an impromptu session being done "unplugged" by guys just sitting at the bar and singing the songs they felt like singing. It ended up being a different but very nice gig.

[Astro]

Cat and Chuck above are really nailing it for me.

1.Some of us have a desire to be entertainers and music is the medium.

2.Some have a primary love of playing music and sharing it reinforces their hard work.

3.Some have a primary love of music with no big need to be legitimized and sharing it can be a distraction.

Really its a continuous spectrum of all 3 and eventually we come to recognize where we fall in the spectrum and that helps.

1.If you are more on the entertainer side, you need to learn what pleases a particular crowd and be able to get into that.
This probably takes the thickest skin at first with lots of highs and lows. You live and die by audience response. Ironically, some eventually get so thick skinned they no longer care about the audience so much and that confidence makes them quite attractive to watch.

3.If you are more on the side of "I love and need to play music and don't need to share to be legitimized", then you have no problem. You may get lonely or frustrated by your limitations but you can always hang in a forum to commiserate or produce a recording to give away for some recognition if needed. Rejoice, you are easiest to be happy.

2.If you are in the middle like me, and love to play music but need to share and interact with other musicians and have some desire to feel appreciated or legitimized for it by an audience then you do need to grow some thick skin. And like everything, that takes practice. Including practicing being vulnerable, embarrassed, and even humiliated. Remember these are feelings we impose on ourselves and no one is really going to hurt you and you will survive. it helps to remember this, but its still painful. Once you've experienced this a few times and realize no one hates you, it becomes less painful. Embarrassment sucks. We take it overly personal because we have exposed ourselves. We are naked. But you can get used to it. After awhile nude models posing for still life artists forget they are nude.

Other things that help for us #2's:

1. Know the song. Really, really know it. As said, know it 3 beers drunk and hot blond flirty eyes cold. Most often when I think I know a song and go to perform it for the first few times I learn that I really dont know it as well as I thought I did. Its because we skip over practicing what we think we know. A writer gets others to proof his paper because he doesn't recognize his own typos. Your first performances are just your editor proof reading what you've done so you can recognize the typos and improve them before the next round.

This takes playing the song almost every day for weeks. Its a lot of tedious work when your set list grows.

2. Realize that for 99.9 % of the audience, you are an ornament of the place. You should expect about as much attention as the picture hanging over the bar. You will be the brunt of more comments than the picture because thats what we do when we go out. We pretend the music guy is why we're there to lesson the embarrassment of why we're really there.

3. Since the music is what you care about, then play it for yourself in front of them. Remember most are not music lovers and don't care and that is OK. Of those that really dig music, very few will dig what you dig and thats OK. You are doing what you like and occasionally some in the audience will dig it too and that is special enough. You dont have to keep everyones attention. That is not your burden to bear. You are there to share your music with whoever might dig it.

4. American audiences are not used to raw organic small venue live music. If a Justin Timberlake or a Paul Simon or a Florence And The Machine or a Pink or a Modest Mouse or whatever pop sensation were playing in the corner of a small venue with their small band in disguises so that no one recognizes them I bet they would cause the same amount of audience recognition that any of the other local bands get. Only after someone gets famous does an audience give their undivided attention to each song on the list. And at that point its all polished to perfection by a whole crew of unseen supporting cast. That is a whole different thing that no one at this level should hold themselves to. And those famous folks wouldnt hold themselves to it either if they were playing in your shoes.

[Bertram Henze]

...then you do need to grow some thick skin.

Callus of the soul.
It behaves exactly like the one on your fingers, and the emory board for smoothening it is potable.

[fatt-dad]

<snip>Know the song. Really, really know it. As said, know it 3 beers drunk and hot blond flirty eyes cold. Most often when I think I know a song and go to perform it for the first few times I learn that I really dont know it as well as I thought I did. Its because we skip over practicing what we think we know. <snip>

I have played Careless Love, From the Beginning and Muskrat Love at least 4 times a night all week. It's funny how I keep finding places where I mess up. It's an interesting expedition!

f-d

p.s., on guitar. I'm also drilling a few mandolin tunes, but they are obscure and unrelated to this thread - ha!

[John Flynn]

I had the privilege of taking multiple ensemble classes from Troy Weidenheimer, who is documented in various histories of the Grateful Dead as having being the lead guitarist of the Zodiacs, the first band Jerry Garcia played in professionally. Garcia played bass! Troy went on to be a traveling factory rep for Fender, and later for Gibson. Troy is a great singer, guitarist and mandolinist.

Anyhow, Troy was immensely helpful to me on the idea of instrumentalists being able to sing songs if they want to have a few in their repertoire. He recommends first finding a few songs you really like, that you have some passion for. I would add they should be songs that do not have a strong "signature" arrangement that your interpretation will have to live up to, unless you can really do that signature sound well. It is also helpful if the melody is simple, which it is for most popular tunes.

Then, it's your "show," so you can sing the song in any key you want. Troy's idea was that most popular songs can be sung well by anyone if they only find the right key for their voice. The problem a lot of "only occasional" singers like me have is trying to sing a tune in the key it was written, a key that is not right for everyone. He also convinced me that as a musician, I have nothing to lose by giving singing songs a try and that it can actually be fun, no matter what you wind up doing with it.

An example for me is one of my favorite tunes, the first tune I ever learned on guitar, "Mr. Tamborine Man." I always struggled with the high notes in G. Transposing it down to C made all the difference and it made the tune sound completely different, in a good way.

[Mark Wilson]

1.Some of us have a desire to be entertainers and music is the medium.

2.Some have a primary love of playing music and sharing it reinforces their hard work.

3.Some have a primary love of music with no big need to be legitimized and sharing it can be a distraction.

I don't get #3. To put the work into it and not motivated to share it in some way. Like a artist/painter who keeps everything created in the basement. I guess it does happen but I think the desire to share is what fuels creativity and progress.

[DavidKOS]

If I learn my songs from a fakebook, are the songs real?

Why not - after all jazz players fake songs from the Real Book - so of course you can play real songs from a fakebook.

[allenhopkins]

We wander, wander far afield from the OP's original situation, as she described it.

People who go out in search of opportunities to perform, for pay or not, have to -- for better or worse -- plan or modify their style and repertoire in order to meet the preferences and expectations of their (potential) audiences. Goes without saying, or perhaps should go without saying.

A mandolinist who's just sharing her craft with family members, who may have expressed some (mild or otherwise) interest -- "Aren't you playing a mandolin now? What kinda stuff do you play?" -- should not, IMHO, have to learn a "family-pleasing" repertoire of "chestnuts" for the occasion. I assign the onus to the less-than-sensitive family member who asked for a "real song."

The compromises that we who perform frequently, for varied audiences, have to make in order to keep gigging, are pretty well-known. I love playing so much that 50K renditions of You Are My Sunshine don't weary me. I'm just glad to look out at my audience of a few dozen seniors, in the living room of some "assisted living" facility, and see lips moving along with the lyrics, and know that I've made a connection, fleeting though it may be.

The music that you play is "real music," whether it's scale exercises or the Great American Songbook, and, unless your family members have hired you for the occasion, I'd just say, "This is what I'm doing now to become a better musician; I really enjoy it! Let me show you how it develops my mandolin skills."

[catmandu2]

We wander, wander far afield from the OP's original situation, as she described it.

The hazards of discussion on the net I suppose -

The music that you play is "real music," whether it's scale exercises or the Great American Songbook, and, unless your family members have hired you for the occasion, I'd just say, "This is what I'm doing now to become a better musician; I really enjoy it! Let me show you how it develops my mandolin skills."

Pragmatic as it is - and more viable perhaps for someone with 50 years of playing experience - this may not be so easy, for everyone...particularly for persons new to playing, or playing before others. IME, many folks have many insecurities around "performing" (sure, it may only be displaying in front of a family member, but things often seem much different than what appears on the surface). Singing, and dancing, for example: why is it so often such a colossal issue - to sing in front of someone, or dance in public - when it is (was) so natural for us? I think those who have such deep feelings around music sense that there is great power within it, and otherwise those with perhaps reluctance to display skills, hobbies, etc. may be disinclined to expose.

WRT family systems - dynamics are complex: many families discourage what they may view as dalliances, frivolity, and leisure of all types (when we should be working) - my in-laws being one such family. Then there are broader societal and cultural factors, religion, education, etc., which influence and condition us - likely all contributing to conflicted feelings among us, wrt displaying our thoughts, feelings, predilections and personalities.

Some of us may be able to whip out a scale book and proclaim - here's my music- it has value - take it or leave it. I suspect as many or more have ambivalence and insecurities around displaying that which is so important and personal. We ascribe meaning: to many, music has immense meaning - thus powerful feelings around it.

[Mark Wilson]

We wander, wander far afield from the OP's original situation, as she described it."

It is page four. Even the bluechip threads have wandered into the weeds by page four

I would take most comments such as "do you know any real songs" as motivational. Some of the better things I've accomplished probably were seeded from being pissed off.

[catmandu2]

It is page four. Even the bluechip threads have wandered into the weeds by page four

Picks are much more interesting than psychology of music!

[fatt-dad]

<snip> Some of the better things I've accomplished probably were seeded from being pissed off.

These are very true words in my life. The calculus teacher that told me to drop the class, 'cause I was going to fail. (I got a B.) Yes, I'll take a challenge. . .

f-d

[jshane]

I know this discussion has wandered-- but I want tot say one thing about singing.

I really truly believe that everyone can sing. We might not be able to sing like <fill in the blank>, but you CAN sing like "you". The trick is to DO it, and not to worry about it.

[SincereCorgi]

I really truly believe that everyone can sing. We might not be able to sing like <fill in the blank>, but you CAN sing like "you". The trick is to DO it, and not to worry about it.

This reminds me of a quote I like about the youth of the American composer Charles Ives:

"One of his father's most resonant pieces of wisdom came when he said of a stonemason's off-key hymn singing: 'Look into his face and hear the music of the ages. Don't pay too much attention to the sounds--for if you do, you may miss the music. You won't get a wild, heroic ride to heaven on pretty little sounds.'"

It reminds me of this homeless guy that occasionally comes to the local fiddle society jams. He can't sing in tune or prettily or keep time, but his voice makes your hair stand up.

[rubydubyr]

Play this for them next time they ask for a "real song" and ask them if this is what they mean...... (see pdf)

[jshane]

.......You won't get a wild, heroic ride to heaven on pretty little sounds.

If you think about a few really well known singers, I think you can see that they "proved the worth of their offerings" and provided the wild heroic ride you mention above... but based SOLELY on vocal quality..... they might have thought they "couldn't sing".

Bob Dylan and Tom Waits come to mind.... there are others. NOT to say these guys cant sing .'cause they are awesome. But smoothly polished, "have 'em sing for your grandmother".... less so.

Just sing. Loose the ego, and do it. It's fun!

[fatt-dad]

I know this discussion has wandered-- but I want tot say one thing about singing.

I really truly believe that everyone can sing. We might not be able to sing like <fill in the blank>, but you CAN sing like "you". The trick is to DO it, and not to worry about it.

"Sam Cooke said this when told he had a beautiful voice: He said, "Well that's very kind of you, but voices ought not to be measured by how pretty they are. Instead they matter only if they convince you that they are telling the truth."

Bob Dylan quoting Sam Cook in recent intrerview.

f-d

[Charles E.]

Melissa, sorry for the loss of your Mom.

This might be of use, just showed up on the Cafe....

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...Chord-Songbook

Good luck with your music and don't let the folks get you down.